Episode 11: The Little Embryo That Could with Jennifer Wayne

speaker-0: and welcome back to Confessions of a Slow Cooker. I'm Ashlyn Blue and today is a good day because I get to have a conversation I have so looked forward to having. Jennifer Wayne is someone I've known for a while, but more on the periphery, I would say. I was out of the music business, you know, busy getting divorced and rebuilding my life and whatnot when she was working with my dad and we'll talk about that. But I knew who she was and you might also, but if you don't, here is a little background. Jennifer is a musical talent extraordinaire. She has a solo project, which I just found out about. She'll, she'll tell you about it. ⁓ she's one third of the country trio runaway June alongside Natalie Stovall and Stevie Woodward. She was also in a group called stealing angels with fellow podcaster, Caroline hobby and Taylor Lynn back in the late two thousands. And that led, I feel like just sort of to her starring alongside Caroline on multiple seasons of the amazing race. Currently, she is a mom, which obviously we'll talk about in depth. But in her spare time when she's not moming or singing or writing songs, she also has a custom hat company called American Paint. The cutest cowboy hat, tWitch. Sidebar, honesty. I never had a cowboy hat when I lived in Nashville for most of my life. I got my first one here in Colorado. Weird. Anyway, Jennifer Wayne, welcome to the show. How are you?

speaker-1: Thank you, Asha. Good. Well, better now that I've listened to you say great things about me. like, no, I'm not. No, but thank you. Yes. You my day. And I've been so looking forward to talking to you. I just, of course, we have known each other and kind of through the periphery, but I feel like once we became moms, we kind of connected more. And I don't know if it's a mom thing or what it is, but I just, even though we're far away, I just have felt. you know, super connected to you ever since we both became moms. So I'm so happy you asked me to join you and I can't wait to talk to you.

speaker-0: Well, thank you. And I honestly think it was the fact that we both have experienced a little bit of trouble, or at least, and you'll talk about this at length, but you were willing to tell me that you didn't know if you could have Lily. You know, like you were willing to be honest ⁓ when it'd be very easy to be like, no, I knew it was great. Because I feel like most people are ⁓ wittingly or unwittingly. a little bit cagey with their information, especially if they're in the public eye. And I understand that. But you were honest with me and I was honest with you and I think that connected us probably a little bit more quickly.

speaker-1: Absolutely. ⁓ And I think too, just being a mom, obviously connects people, but when you actually go through something, like what you and I both have, it's like, wow, it's comforting knowing that you're not the only one struggling with things. then also, just realize, wow, what a miracle every child is, and how lucky we are to have them. Because you just think about how many million things have to combine and work all at once, you know, for it to happen. And it's just, my daughter is the biggest blessing in my entire world and life. And so, yeah, I'm very thankful for her and I'm thankful that you have your baby too. And I can't wait to talk about being a mom, all the fun things, all the hard things, all the everything.

speaker-0: ⁓ yes. Okay, so where do you want to start? Because I'm going to leave this up to you.

speaker-1: being a mom is the most difficult job in the entire world and you get zero pay and zero credit. And I think, you know, for me, just where I'd start is it's the greatest thing in world, but it's also the most difficult because I'm such a kind of a perfectionist where I like, you know, I'm a straight A student, I was a tennis player, I excelled in tennis, I was top ranked, I went to school and a scholarship. I everything I've ever done, I kind of have it. sell that. And it's kind of because there's like a path to it, you know, and, if you study and you can, you can get good grades and there's always kind of been a path to it. And so I'm a worker. And so when I had Lily, I'm like, uh-oh, like, I don't know what the heck I'm doing, you know, and there's no book or guide or I mean, I'm like, what do I do? I just all of sudden, like I'm leaving the hospital and I'm like, I'm supposed to, you're letting me take her? I don't know what I'm doing. Like, is this legal? You know? And I want to, I'm a perfectionist, I want to be like a perfect mom. And I just fail all the time. And I just, don't know what I'm doing and I've made mistakes. And so I think that that, I don't know. I think that anyone who kind of says, ⁓ I'm a perfect mom or I'm a great parent. It's like, well, you know what? It's just, there's no such thing. it's That's bullshit. Yeah. And it's tough and I think talking about it and also talking about, you know, the struggles that you go through to be a mom, I think that it's okay to talk about. And I think if I would have, you know, talked about it before becoming a mom, I would have felt a little bit, you know, I would have felt less hard on myself knowing that I wasn't the only one that felt this way and that it was okay, you know, because no one's going to be a perfect mom. So I think talking about things, especially when you're in a safe place and you and I are friends and you're a safe place. And I feel like I want to share my story and if it helps other people, I think it's a beautiful thing. So that's where I want to start, but I didn't even give you a starting place.

speaker-0: It's okay. No, that's great. And it is, you know, and I think a safe place, ⁓ a safe place, because obviously this is going to be a public place. This is not going to be a private conversation post taping. ⁓ But I think you have to have a safe place within yourself first. Because if you don't feel, yeah, having a conversation with someone who's not going to be sitting there like judging you or being like,

speaker-1: You know?

speaker-0: I didn't go through that, I didn't go through that, you know, and making you feel, even if they did, making you feel badly about something. So yeah, having that other side of the conversation is important. But also, if you are just not ready, you're not ready. And I feel like this, I hope that this podcast, this show, this episode aids in helping someone get ready. Because like you said, if you had known... that other people were going through some things and maybe you had had maybe had conversations with them or just within yourself to say, okay, yep, yep, they did that too. They did that too. Then maybe you would have felt more comfortable sooner reaching out to somebody or at least just saying it out loud. found earlier on in my first trial of the century was my divorce and I did not keep it to myself. I didn't post about it or anything. It wasn't about disparaging or whatever, but I didn't make any bones about it. ⁓ this is funny. Emily West, she said something to me. This is so off topic. Sorry, everybody. But I felt this is kind of a case in point. We went to someone's house for a little like girls get together and Emily was there and she asked me how I was. By the way, I was not doing well. And I told her so. I said, not that good. And she knew I was, it was like post divorce stuff. But later on, told me, or no, maybe she told me this that day. She said, at another function, I asked you how you were, and you said, I'm not doing very well. And you left it that, and it was so uncomfortable for me. But I so appreciated it in the aftermath, thinking, and I'm paraphrasing this. ⁓ She said, I so appreciated that because you were willing to be honest about how you felt. You weren't just saying, I'm great, I'm good. You just said how you felt. And it was like that, like I don't. care anymore. Like I'm not going to try to take so much more effort to pretend than it does just to be honest. That doesn't mean you dump, you know, but that moment I was like, yeah, I guess so. And because I was willing, probably just too tired and overwhelmed by the grief I was going through to keep it in and hold it in, it led to more conversations and other people started to be able to understand me a little bit more. ⁓ And again, I didn't have to pretend and You know, I'm not an actor at all. I'm very bad at that. I ⁓ can do a voiceover, but I don't think I should be acting any time soon.

speaker-1: Well, you know what's interesting, Ashen, about saying that is how she was like, well, it's uncomfortable because you just said it and then you left it at that. And I think, you know, we would be uncomfortable, but at the same time, if you really think about it, it's like, well, that shouldn't make someone uncomfortable. And in our society, we put out there that you have to be perfect so much, you know, that you, everything has to be good and everything. And you say, how are you? I'm good. If you say, how are you? I'm bad.

speaker-0: Yeah.

speaker-1: that's not an answer people give, you know? And it's like we as a society have put this pressure to be perfect all the time and that's just not real, you know? And so I think it's like a beautiful thing that you just answered honestly. And I think if more people started doing that, it wouldn't feel so weird on the other end, you know?

speaker-0: Right, right, and also, I mean... It doesn't mean that you have to be like, ⁓ why? And I didn't say it for any reason. I didn't need her pity or her whatever. just, yeah, I totally agree. I think it would so help society show up a little bit more if you weren't always, you know, putting on a costume that you think someone else wants you to wear. ⁓ And especially when you're in a hard time, a hard moment, like, you know, going through fertility issues. is It's not a quick thing because you may be going through month after month of trying and failing, or you're going through the IVF process, which is months long, maybe more than months, maybe years long if you try multiple rounds. And then there's the pregnancy, and then there's the birth, and then there's the after birth, not literally the after birth, sorry. But there are so many things that you are going through. And so if you wait, to be better. You're never gonna talk to anybody.

speaker-1: Yeah.

speaker-0: But also I was going to say the perfectionism, people put it on like the society puts on, but if you're also a perfectionist like you and I are, double.

speaker-1: Yeah, I think you and I are probably like hardest on ourselves because that's kind of how you become a perfectionist. know, and when you're talking about all the, ⁓ you know, everything you're going through with failing and trying and I think a lot of times people or men don't probably understand as much as we do is like there's some weird thing in us that feels like we have to become a mom, but we want to become a mom. And so when you feel like, when you can't, and you're kind of failing like that, it's almost like you're, I don't know how to describe it, but it's like you're failing in your purpose or your body's not doing what it's supposed to and what is my fault. And so it's a weird emotional toll too, not just wanting the baby, also has some kind of psychological thing on like, what's wrong with me? I'm supposed to be able to have a baby. I'm supposed to care. So I think there's like, this whole other world, like, and there's just so many avenues of just emotion that you go through in this process. And I think a lot of that, you know, gets ignored because you're just thinking, okay, well, she's upset because she can't have a baby. It's like, well, there's also like a lot of other stuff and there's an age limit too. Like we, can have kids till whenever, you know, and we are just locked in at a certain number, it goes away. And so there's like that pressure. So part of my story is I wanted to be a mom, but I was in no hurry to be a mom. I was busy doing music and in music, it's very tough to be a mom. And it's almost kind of shunned. It's getting better, I think. But, you know, when I was in a band, my first band, our label dropped us when one of our band members got pregnant. And so you always just like have in the back of your mind, like, you can't have a baby, you can't have it. Don't get pregnant. Don't get pregnant. You know, you lose your deal. Publishing too. mean, So anyway, it was like I wanted to be a mom, I was like, I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna get where I'm supposed to be going first. And of course I never got there. You you always, you know, you never think you're gonna end up and you never, you always have, you know, more things you want to accomplish. And so when COVID hit, it was like my entire world just stood still and there was no touring, no music. I was writing, but you know, I wasn't gone. And so I met someone. ⁓ my daughter's dad and I just like fell in love so fast, so hard and we actually spent every day together because I wasn't traveling and there was nothing to do. So you're like living with this person and I felt like I knew him and I really didn't, you know, I only knew him for a couple months before he got married. And so anyway, I also think I felt the pressure of I was going to be turning 40 and I'm like, well, you know, if I'm going to have a baby, ⁓ kind of at the end. And also this would be the time to have a baby because everything stopped, touring stopped, I could actually be home. so I think like a lot of that, you know, when I look back at why did I get married so quickly? I think a lot of it had to do with the, you know, having a child. like I, yeah, I'm on a clock and I, gosh, I better do it now, you know.

speaker-0: Thank The technological clock too, yeah.

speaker-1: And so, and I thank God every day, I'm divorced from Lily's dad, but I thank God every day for him because I wouldn't have Lily without him, you know? And when I was 35, I tried freezing my eggs and I actually couldn't, I couldn't do it because I didn't have enough eggs to freeze. And I would do the whole process and they'd go, ⁓ it's like not worth it. I have two eggs in that cycle, you know? And so I really thought that it was gonna be be a struggle for me to get pregnant, you know? And I thought I was gonna have to probably go through IVF and, you know, just a slim chance of getting pregnant. ⁓ and I'm, can interrupt me, sorry, I'm just blah, blah, going. But when we got married, so I was on my period the day that we got married. We got married and whenever that cycle ended, it was like two weeks later, I got pregnant. And I was like in shock because I thought, how is this possible? Like I thought I couldn't get pregnant. I thought we were gonna have to, you know, do everything in the world to get pregnant, you know? And I tried to freeze my eggs, it didn't work. And so I was like in major shock. was worried. just, it wasn't, I hate to say this, but I wasn't like excited because I wasn't ready for it and I wasn't prepared. And I just thought, ⁓ my God, we just got married. And so ⁓ anyway, I did eventually, you know, I thought, this is happening, come around, know? And then we went to the doctor's appointment where you're supposed to hear the heartbeat and there was no heartbeat. And so that was like, I mean, talk about devastating. just was, so I just got over the shock of like getting pregnant unexpectedly when I wasn't ready. And then I kind of got around to like accepting it and excited for it. And then there's no heartbeat. And so the doctor was like, well, let's do blood tests just to make sure sometimes you can't hear the heartbeat. And so we checked the blood and that will give us a better sign. So I did the blood test and I wasn't going to get the result till the next morning. So I went home and you know, it's just devastating. don't even know how to describe it. Yeah, because it's like you think that baby's not there, but then maybe there's a chance. And so then the next day they call and they're like, great news. The blood levels are like positive and

speaker-0: Sorry.

speaker-1: We really think, you know, there's a chance this baby is alive. And they wanted to put me on progesterone and do, you know, supplements. And I think it was like a two or three week waiting window where I was taking all these, all the medicine and supplements to try to come back to see if we could hear the heartbeat. And so that's a long time, like not knowing if your baby's alive or not alive, you know? And it was funny talking about you and I bonding over stories and we knew each other, but we just really didn't. And the same thing happened with me during that time with a songwriter in Nashville. I won't say her name because I don't know if she's talked about it publicly, but she's a very big songwriter. And I always look up to her. She's my idol, but I forgot how we got in contact, but she shared with me her story about... ⁓ her having a really hard time getting pregnant and she had a lot of issues and just it was all everything stacked against her. And she went to this acupuncturist and she was like, I swear this guy is a miracle worker. I think he saved me and my baby. And so she gave me his info and I went to him and he, you know, anyway, long story short, I kind of thought that the baby was okay. And then I go back. you know, after a couple of weeks, then there's no heartbeat. So I was living that whole time, you know, and your baby is not there. It was just horrible. And so after that, I kind of thought, wow, that was such a freak accident because like, I didn't think I could get pregnant. And I was like, ⁓ it'll never happen again. And I just remember it was like a morning, but also I thought, but I got pregnant. I was kind of trying to see the positive and like comfort myself. like, but I got pregnant and I had the chance to feel like what it was, what it felt like to be pregnant. I'll probably never feel that again, you know?

speaker-0: Everybody did it. It did do it.

speaker-1: Yes, and the doctor said don't try again for a couple months. And then I think it was like three months or something, you can start trying again. And so after three months, we didn't try, but we didn't not try. it was just bam, pregnant with Lily. It was just like unbelievable. And so I don't know, it's a miracle. look back and I think whatever the, you know, the stars and everything had to align, million things had to align for that baby to happen. And the doctor told me when you have a miscarriage, your baby's, I mean, your body is still in the pregnancy mode and still kind of wants to get pregnant. And so they said a lot of pregnancies actually happen after miscarriages because your body is in that mode. And so I look back and I think, wow, I think that first baby came because it knew that it was going to bring life to Lily. And I wouldn't have Lily without that happening. so I just, mean, it's, is sad, you have to kind of try to see the beauty in things that are sad. And I feel like that was what's purpose is it wanted to come and give life to my little girl.

speaker-0: I feel the same way actually, as much as I hate that we lost our first embryo, I would not have Archer. I mean, I would have somebody maybe, but it wouldn't be my little bud. I wanted to go back actually to what you were saying about the timing of all of this. The feeling that, because okay, we both have a lot in common, ⁓ musical stuff, but then, ⁓ hey, we're both divorced, and ⁓ hey, we have later in life pregnancy stuff and trouble. And I didn't have a miscarriage per se, because it happened, ⁓ maybe I guess I did.

speaker-1: I did. I did. Yeah, did.

speaker-0: ⁓ not in the traditional way. Yeah. but I remember I got divorced at 30 and I'm 40 now. And I remember feeling really, really ancient then thinking there's no way in the world I'm ever going to have time to meet somebody. And then, you know, I just went through this whole divorce process. I'm not trying to rush it. Like it just felt like time was so against me and it felt impossible to navigate at the time. I just. you because I was, my planner side was like, okay, I find someone. We have to like know each other for a while. And then we then I guess we'll get engaged and then we'll get married and then we need to have some time to be married. And then, and then, but then I'm doing the math and math is never good for me, but I could do one, two, three, four, five. And I was like, geriatric is pretty close now. Like, ⁓ my gosh, ⁓ my gosh, ⁓ my gosh, I'm never gonna, I'm never gonna get done. And what that can do though.

speaker-1: even anything.

speaker-0: And you were mentioning it. And of course, had what you had with the COVID thing is you had like a pause in life. You weren't on the road. No one's expecting you to do anything. You met somebody. kind of like you are literally quarantined with that person, ⁓ which can be good or not good. ⁓ For me, it was my first year and my new marriage. And I call my parents crying in a good way. It was like. I married the right guy. I spending so much time with him. was like, yeah, this could either be really bad or really good. and anyway, that puts pressure on you to make decisions that maybe you wouldn't have to make if you didn't have the time clock. And sometimes it's work. It works. Sometimes it's great, but sometimes it can lead to making a decision you kind of wish you hadn't made. Of course there's a silver lining. Lily is here. But I also, hate that for women because like you said, the guy doesn't have to really worry about that as much. They might have other things to worry about, but that's not one of them in the same way. And like all these sports stars that you see, like they can have like five or six kids and you never know because they weren't having to stop their job. And I hate, I did not know.

speaker-1: Same with guys singing.

speaker-0: I did not know that the label dropped because of a pregnancy. That is insane. It kind of sounds illegal. ⁓

speaker-1: I- Well, the wording wasn't that, but that was the reason. Okay.

speaker-0: Yeah. Illegal in reality. ⁓

speaker-1: Today's world is probably tougher, but back then, you know, that was like 15 years ago, so it was different, you know? Yeah.

speaker-0: Yeah, I hate that. Yeah, because like people, it's like, okay, do you want us to progress as a society? Or do you want us to stay in the Stone Age? And then that goes back to your point, or not the Stone Age, the 50s. ⁓ That goes to your point of feeling like if you don't have a child, like the workforce is kind of saying something against becoming a mom and then... The culture is saying something about not becoming a mom and that that's like kind of what you're meant for. That's what being a female is meant for. And so where do you live? How can you live in it with all of those parameters? Like you're just like bumping up against something that doesn't necessarily think you're in the right spot. And not to mention what's going on in your own brain and your own heart. I just bless you. Bless you.

speaker-1: Well, thank you. Well, you know what is interesting about you saying that is like, look back and I just think if I could give advice to my younger self, ⁓ I would just say I wouldn't have worried so much about getting to wherever I thought I was going before and started having kids. I would just tell you, tell that person to start earlier if it's the right, you know, person obviously, right? But like, don't wait to have kids. Don't think. ⁓ I got to do this before I have kids. got to do this stuff with kids. Because for one, you're always going to want more. You're never going to be where you think you're going to be. And you're never going to be ready to have kids. just never going to. It's so, you you just can always find a reason to not have them. And then you get to a place where you're like at the time where you can't have them anymore. I, know, Lily is the only child and I want. 10 more of her now, you know? And I just look and I won't be able to. So if I could give my younger self advice, I would just say put more focus on being a mom than you, there was zero focus on that. was all career, all career. And that's great to have, you know, focus on career, but I also think being a mom is the best thing I've ever. experience and it's the best thing that's ever happened to me. So I would tell my younger self, put just as much focus on starting a family than your career because they're just, they're, A, you can do both. People will tell you you can't, but you can't do both. And your career, you're never going to get where you think you're going, you know? And so if you miss out on being a mom, it's, for me, it's the greatest thing that's ever happened to me. Yeah. That's one thing like in this, if anyone's watching this and you're worried about like a time, you know, you're like, I can't do it now because I have this. Just don't give yourself, don't, don't put all that. Um, I don't know what the wording is, but don't, don't miss out on the moment because you think you have to wait for something else. You know, if you're, if you're with the right person and you want to be a mom, start earlier, you know, that's what I would tell my younger self.

speaker-0: your life can adjust around it. ⁓ And there are plenty of examples out there of that. And I think also the other tip that you sort of gave by your own story is that you tried to freeze your eggs. That's another way to at least try to do a little bit of both, you know? ⁓ Because that's one of my issues right now. I get asked that question all the time. I'm sure you do too with Only Children. do you wanna have another? And most of the time it's because people think I am a lot younger than I am because I have always skewed on the childlike scale. But I'm like, no, I'm no, I'm actually good. know, cause what we would have to do is another way. I.U.I., Marcus's swimmers are on ice down in Denver as far as I know. I think we may have just pulled that out, you know. that option off. So we'd have to do that or I'd have to go do another round of IVF. I'm like, you know, my eggs are not spring chickens anymore. And that's okay. But that's an option for someone else listening thinking I literally cannot do it right now. And I don't have a partner. I don't know someone I'm with. I don't know. But I do want to give my my body the best chance possible and the best way to do that. You know, it's not like a super cost effective way, but it is the best way to do that. mean, excuse me. The best way to do that is to attempt to freeze your eggs as young as you possibly can because the younger the eggs are, the better chance that they will get to the next ⁓ stage in IVF or IUI, you know, whatever the case is for you. I guess it's IVF if you do that. So yeah, I think you kind of did both. You you gave yourself a tip, but you also tried.

speaker-1: I did try, but like to your point, I tried a little late, you I was 35 and if I would have tried at 30 or 28, maybe it would have been better. So I do think to your point, like if you're younger and you're not ready, I think it's a great thing to do. I mean, it's like a no brainer to me and you would spend that much money on something else, but you buy a new car, but you're not going to, so I think you just. I think the word I was trying to say is like importance, put as much importance on being a mom if that's something that's on your heart than you do on other things, you know? And that would be part of it. It's like, well, dedicate that money and time into freezing your eggs and you know that you have them, you know? And it's so interesting. I did the show with Kelly Pickler. It was called I Love Kelly Pickler. was on CMT. It was kind of like I Love Lucy show, but that's how I started the egg. So I didn't even know about egg freezing. And Kelly was like, I think on one of the shows, you because you haven't met someone yet and you're 35, like, I think we should freeze your eggs. And I'm like, okay. I was like, I don't even really know how that works or what's that. And so that was like, I think too, just having like the knowledge that it's out there and we've come so far with what scientists can do and doctors. it's like, we. have the ability to do stuff that you didn't back then and you should just take advantage of all of it. You know, it's such a beautiful thing. ⁓ I know what I was going to say is at the time I was like, gosh, Kelly, I don't know. That's kind of like weird. Is that like kind of playing God? And she goes, honey, in her accent, she's like, God gave us all brains and he gave, he gave those scientists and doctors the brains to to figure out how to do that. This is God's work here." And I'm like, here, she's so right. God gave us the ability to do all this stuff. And she's so right. You know, why would I think anything else? So anyway, she's wonderful. But I think that that's a great, beautiful option if you're not with the person.

speaker-0: her candle.

speaker-1: that you want to be with or even if you are with the person you want to be with and you're not ready yet, like you said, it's like, great, do it. Don't think twice, just do it.

speaker-0: think all of this can be chalked up to two things. One of them is to be present in your life, your actual life, like every single day, which of course you need to be every day. when you're in pursuit of something like your career, ⁓ it's easy to always be thinking of the next and where you want to go and what step do I need to take to get there. And it's easy to... if you're a planner or perfectionist or type A or all the above like myself, to think once I this, then I that. And to think that there's no way that you could possibly have a wrench thrown in and it be a good thing. I will say one of the best things about Coloradans, now that I've lived here almost a decade, which is insane, I know, is that one thing they do is they...

speaker-1: I can't believe that.

speaker-0: bring their kids into everything they did before they had them. A lot of times it's their older parents because they were into sports or like, you know, mountain biking. Things are like intense. ⁓ And some people decide not to have them at all and continue doing that. But a lot of them eventually decide, okay, I do want to start a family. And you will see on the trails, ⁓ on the mountains, like slopes, everyone just has their kid, just part of it on the bike. You know, they just, they bring it in. think, ⁓ actually they're not Coloradans anymore, but Patrick and Harmony Tracy, Patrick, like he has them doing stuff early on. He adopted that mindset early and I loved it. ⁓ But yeah, you just like, you have a life, bring them in as opposed to you have a life, stop it, change it, move it. And like, think about it. I think the most positive way is to think about it as they're joining your life in the best of ways and they're going to love it. because it's a life you painstakingly made. so thinking that you have to carve out who you are to become a mom, I think is detrimental to just the natural order of maybe what could happen if you just didn't mentally let that in.

speaker-1: ⁓ That's a great way of putting it.

speaker-0: But then also, the same time of being present, think about the future. Think about, like, if you're a woman, you got to think about how old you are because what you cannot do is decide when you're going to meet someone. That just is not something I tried. Post-divorce, I tried so hard. ⁓ You can't make that happen. You can't decide if you're going to meet somebody when you're, like, in high school, in college. after a divorce, before your, you can't. And so instead of what you can do is plan for the fact that you're gonna turn 40, 35 at some point. So if you know you wanna be a mother, think about that ahead of time, regardless of what your personal life is. And maybe you don't wanna partner at all and that would be a lot easier. But if you do, I would suggest being present in your life, but also thinking ahead in terms of, right, I want this mom, momhood. So I don't have what I want and who I want to be with to do it. But because I know that, I'm going to go ahead and take steps to make sure that I have the best shot possible at becoming a mother.

speaker-1: Yeah, and you know, it's very interesting that I did not know before I went through the egg freezing process is I just thought like we had our periods and our body created eggs each cycle. I did not know that we are born with a certain amount of eggs and every single time you have your period, those eggs are gone forever. Had no idea. So when I learned that, I'm like, wow, that's crazy. And everybody's different. You know, everyone, some, some people continue to have eggs until they're late 40s. Some people stop and they're late 30s and so you just don't know what your number is. And those eggs are going to be gone anyway because they're going to be gone through that cycle. So if you freeze your eggs, they're going to be gone anyway. You might as well save some of them, you know? Right, right. And even if you don't know if you want to be a mom, but you just want to have the option, it's like at least you're giving yourself that option, you know? And I think that that's kind of empowering is knowing that you have that option. Because if you don't and you're 45, you probably don't have it anymore, you know?

speaker-0: Yeah. Oh, and that leads me to think, okay, so we were talking about freezing eggs, but also I highly recommend, and I'm sure you'll agree with this, just going through what you had to go through, getting checked out on all the other levels. You know, getting, finding out, I found out I have a little bit of a thyroid issue, not something that is like concerning to my life without trying to get pregnant, like so today, it's fine. But it was enough for a pregnancy to be potentially jeopardized. And so they put me on levothyroxine for forever, ⁓ before and during, and a little bit after the pregnancy was over. so those little things could have kept me in the dark forever of not knowing why. ⁓ The same thing for Marcus. He found out he had had an obstruction. He had to go get his sperm manually removed, which was delightful for him. Um, and, um, which is why they're on ice, but, uh, you know, like being a, willing to go find out the hard news that maybe you don't want to know right now, because it would be a lot easier just to try and see what happens and kind of have that fairy tale of, we tried, we got it. You know, um, it's a lot easier just to roll the dice and hope. Um, but hope. especially with a clock, does not necessarily get you where you want to go. That doesn't mean that you're gloom and doom. You just, I feel like getting, just like, you know, at 40, you start doing mammograms. I'm getting a colonoscopy next month because I have issues in my family and I have no reason to think I have any problem except for I have gut issues out the wazoo. But like, I want to know because if I don't know, I can't take care of it. And so with fertility, it's the same thing. feel like if you don't know that you have, for instance, my sister has PCOS, she didn't find out until she was trying to get pregnant. And there were signs, so many signs when she was young. And so if you don't know it's under the hood, you can't help an aide and maybe redirect or take, sometimes it's just the easiest fix. know, sometimes it's taking a particular medication to... get rid of X, Y, or Z or to flourish, know, make something flourish. Sometimes it's getting on birth control for a month to reset your system. Like there are so many things that science to your point can do that, but if you don't know it, you can't help or aid or fix or redirect, you know. So it's knowledge is power. How many times have we heard that in our life?

speaker-1: Well, and you just said it so much more eloquently than I was trying to, but like when you're younger, you put all this effort and focus on your career, you know, and it's like, yeah, exactly, we're not getting pregnant. But like you should take the time and effort to do things to help your body and to a little more focus on motherhood too, even if you're not doing it right at that moment, you know, and that's part of it is like be prepared, check.

speaker-0: or not getting pregnant.

speaker-1: see what's working, see what's not working, see where you could help. I think all of that is, you just said it perfectly, if I could tell my younger self, it's like, just focus, put that in your mind too, not just music.

speaker-0: Think about all that stuff. I want you to get, ⁓ I love that you're giving your younger self advice because I'm sure someone out there is, you know, career minded and is wondering how to balance or thread the needle, however you want to describe that feeling. But I also, I don't want you to be so hard on yourself. think you... you chose what you chose because you wanted to do it. And maybe, you know, it's a lot easier to say now, like, I wish I would have done stuff. I mean, if we could write our lives like we write a song, that would be so cool. But we were so dull. That's so true. Hold on, hold on. Exactly. That takes me to the writing of it. You've been writing some songs about motherhood, yeah?

speaker-1: peace. would have never been a hit. Yeah, and what's wild, you know, just thinking about all this is like, you do, I did try so hard to not get pregnant and you're so worried about, know, music is going to drop you if you get pregnant. ⁓ And then I had Lily, my daughter, and I've been just so focused on music before her and trying to get Runaway June my band, which, you know, we had a little bit of success thanks to your dad. just never kind of got where we wanted to go. ⁓ And so it's just so funny how I had Lily and I started writing these songs about being a mom, just all the things I feel and experience being a mom. And they were written to her, so every song is to her. And I thought I was writing them just for myself and just like therapy, you know, or I don't really know, just getting it out. And I never write by myself too, I always co-write. these These were the first songs I really truly, I mean, I've written a couple, but I was just writing by myself and they were all things just real, raw emotions and being very honest and very honest about my situation and all the, one of them's about guilt, about Lily growing up with divorced parents, the last thing I wanted to ever do for my kid. so anyway, I started writing these songs and I sent them to a few people and the reaction I got was like awesome. Which is so crazy for me because I'm like never even wanted to be a solo artist. don't have it. I don't, I don't want to be a superstar. I don't want to do any of that stuff. But, and you spend your whole time like trying not to be a mom and thinking that being a mom is going to prevent your music from taking off. And then here I am, I become a mom and I write these songs, like not thinking anything's going to happen to them. And I'm getting all these people that want to do stuff with me and do stuff with the songs. I'm like, wow. is crazy that Lily has actually inspired me to, I think, write some of my most beautiful songs I've ever written and they're all to her. it's also pretty cool to go, wow, I was so worried that having a child would prevent me from doing this music industry and music thing. And then now here I am writing songs about it and I'm going in with ⁓ J. DeMarcus who's in Rascal Flatts. And he's going to produce some of the songs. And I'm like, what is my life? I moved to Nashville. Rascal Flatts is huge, you know? And one of the first songs I ever pitched my music to was Rascal Flatts, which I'm sure never even got to them. But I just remember thinking, ⁓ my God, if they heard this song, if they even just heard it, I would be the luckiest person in the world. You know, I just, so that was like my first memory of Nashville is like coming here thinking, wow, if they even just heard the song. then now Jay is... producing my music about being a it's just so crazy to me. It's like a full circle, beautiful moment. And just so cool that this music, whatever happens with it, it's touching people. You know, even if it's just one person or two people, but it's pretty cool that it's all come full circle and it's all about being a mom.

speaker-0: I love that story so much. And before we started taping, we were talking about songwriting in general. And I know this has nothing to with fertility, people listening, watching, but there is something about authenticity that just makes all the difference in everything you do, including writing music. We were talking about writing for other people because we've both done that in the past and how it, you know, when you start writing for yourself, literally not like as a as an artist, like writing because you want to say the thing and you want to do the thing ⁓ and tell the thing, whatever, ⁓ it aligns so much more quickly with everything else that's going on in the world, including the people who reach out to you. I feel the same way about this podcast. If I had not gone through all my infertility issues and written so much about it and decided to write a book about it with my acupuncturist and then decide Oh, I want to start editing podcasts for a living and then being like, actually I could do a pod. All those things. was like the weirdest year last year where, and this is no longer about songwriting, but like I was stepping into something that aligned with who I was and something I was super passionate about. But none of it was about like, I want to be a podcaster, you know, and nothing to do with that. It was just like, no, I have something to say and I really care about it. And I know other people do too. And no one's talking about this. in the same way? And how much better could our conversations be with people if this is our norm? same with your writing.

speaker-1: cool that Archer, like you wouldn't be doing this without Archer. It's like you're, you being a mom has given you this whole other work path, you know? So we're so worried that work is going to stop being a mom, but then it's actually creating this beautiful line of work that you're passionate about, that you weren't even trying to do, you know? It's because of Archer. It's just so cool to me that being a mom brings all these other blessings that you don't even know about. And you're so worried that things are going to get taken away from you or not going to happen. And it's actually the opposite.

speaker-0: Right. What forces you, think, just to distill yourself down. You only have so much time in the day to have a thought, like a real one. And I mean, I don't know about you, but Archer is psycho pants in the best way as possible, but he is psycho pants. so, I mean, running around, we were talking this morning, Marcus and I, because he has like three or four trucks while he's eating breakfast. Go, go. He's like, duty is all boy. And I was like, yes. I mean, and when he's not sitting, he is running around with the cars on the ground, up in the air and watch your toes. And so it's like, I don't have much time to think. And I think that may have been the key. That I don't have so much time to think and plan and perfect. Like I just have to do the things in between the time when he is either down for a nap or at. school or whatever, like I have to get stuff done, you know, or maybe I'm having to do two things and hold him while I'm doing the things. But it's amazing how my, I feel like my brain has channeled itself so much more into like you, you don't have time to think about all the scenarios anymore. You just need to get to it. And it pointed me to something that made sense to my whole body versus just what made sense in my head.

speaker-1: Yeah. Right. And also, like you were saying about being present, when you don't have time and you're chasing around a kid, you don't have time to not be present. know? You're present with that. I mean, and it's kind of a beautiful thing because it does stop your mind from thinking about a million other things because you're worried about just this kid right here in this moment. And it's 24-7 nonstop unless, like you said, they're taking a nap.

speaker-0: Very rare these days.

speaker-1: Yeah, I know my Lily is starting to not nap, is, anyway. also, everyone that meets her, they're like, oh, she's like a boy. She's got boy energy. She is just same way. I mean, she's wild off that. can't, I had her birthday party here a couple days ago and it literally looked like my house was turned upside down and like I spent all day yesterday cleaning and I can't, I'm not even there. then she-

speaker-0: Good for me.

speaker-1: Thank you. But it does force you to be present and it's kind of a beautiful thing too, you know? it's really, I think about it all the time and because Lily will even tell me, I'll get on my phone, she's calm for like a second, I'll get on my phone and she's like, no phone. And I'm like, wow, she's even aware of like the phone takes me away from her. She's three years old, but she still figures that out. And so I like... really, you know, I'm trying hard to not be on my phone as much because the Tennessee is to always just pick it up even if you're just checking something, you know? And she notices. And so it's kind of this beautiful thing where like your kid's putting you in check. Like she's putting me in check and it's a good thing, you know? She's like, no, you're going to be present with me and I want my ball or whatever it is, you know? And so I don't know. That's like one of my favorite things about being a parent is it's like, wow, I'm really like, I'm in it with her. Every second of every day.

speaker-0: She's, I feel like maybe the way that this can be described when you're, ironically, as the parent being with your child, you're sort of put into a childlike mentality. You're forced into it and they're not thinking about their phones. They're not thinking about, you know, any of the external stuff, the news, all that. They are so present. And so that when you're with them, even when you're not, you know, like, but as a mom, you just kind of become... You just become forced to be present in those moments that you do have. Again, with them or not. And yeah, it's so nice to not think so much. I am so tired of thinking. yeah, think having a child, if you want one and you get one, there are some beautiful things that can come out of it that are so unexpected. And you know, I was seeing the other day, it was a meme of some sort, but not like a funny one. It was like facts. it, I wish I had it. And I don't know if these are true, but I feel like they are. So, ⁓ but it was going through some like stats of like women over 40 who become ⁓ either business owners or like a... women over X who become millionaires, women over, it was like all these things that were, but they were all over 40. And I was like, that really, I think I've seen that kind of thing forever, you know, like just pass through, but I wasn't 40 yet. So it didn't really like hit me. There is something about being older that as a woman, I feel like that just like really channels every bit of you. You don't.

speaker-1: really.

speaker-0: care as much about the things around you because you've learned that they are noise. You've been through shit. You know that everything you've gone through, unless you're, you know, head in the sand, you know that the hard stuff is the good stuff. You know it leads to the good stuff. And all those things together just kind of make you a little more unstoppable, which is so fun. I love being 40. I don't know about you, but I love being in my 40s. It has been the best thing and I think it makes me a better parent. I mean, of course I would have wanted kids as early as I could have gotten them, of course. But the way my life ended up is the way that my life ended up and I would not change it for the world, especially right at this moment. I feel, and I keep saying the word aligned and it kind of sounds woo woo. I do feel aligned and I never knew what that felt like until recently. And I feel like you are feeling that too. I love that for you.

speaker-1: It is an amazing feeling because I feel the same way about this new music I've written. I just feel like, and that's obviously being sent from God because it's just coming down. so he's doing this for a reason. He's wanting me to write this music and it's coming from my heart. And so there's nothing that's ever felt more real and more aligned, like you said. And also, I think, like you said, being in your 40s, just, know. You just don't care as much. You don't care about other people and like what they think. And I think the whole life I've just been so worried about what everybody thinks. And, you know, it's also just like this beautiful confidence that you have that you're like, no, I can do anything really. Like, I feel like at this point in my life, I'm like, I could do anything I want to do. And I feel like you're supposed to be like that when you're, you know, 20, you know, and then when I was 20, I was just so nervous and I'm like, oh, you know. And now I just have a confidence that you can't get unless you've gone through stuff like what you said. You have to go through shit, you know? And then I think also being a mom gives you confidence. I talk about something difficult. It's the most difficult thing I've ever done in my life. my body pushed out a literal baby. I just like, every time I second guess myself, I look in the mirror, I'm like, you are. badass, you birth to a child, like, you know? And so I just think that that's also, you know, given me a lot of confidence. And I feel like that's the way with you. Like, it's just a beautiful thing. So I think women in their 40s are just unstoppable.

speaker-0: if they let themselves be. And I am choosing to let myself be. And I don't look like I used to when I was doing music and, you know, like my most fit, my thinnest, whatever. I don't care. find I just don't care because I feel more me than I ever have with a bunch of emerging wrinkles. ⁓ And I'm okay with that. I love that I'm aging because that means I made it here. And I've succeeded in overcoming obstacle after obstacle. Like you said, just giving birth alone, if you just took that. And you don't have to have a baby or have birthed a baby to feel... Because I don't want to take away from anyone who is listening who may have adopted or had a surrogate. It is not about that. It's just an example to point to. If you've gone through something difficult, it is something to point to. and you made it out on the other side. so birth is just a really easy example to point to because of all the physical mishaps that can come with that and just, you know, your body going out and then coming back in and yeah, I don't know. I just think of.

speaker-1: About that part, when I had my daughter, was like, all I could think about was her coming out and I did, I was freaked out in my mind. I was watching all these videos and people screaming and I was like so scared of giving birth and I was so worried about it. And then I remember when the doctor, like I had her and actually like I was in labor like 23 hours, some crazy, like way too long. But when it's a whole other story, but when it got time to actually do the pushing, I was like a rockstar. like, I'm getting this baby out. I, cause I had like a goal, you know, I was like, I can do it, you know, I can do it. Um, but then, so, so that part was actually easier than all of my fear before that. You know, I had such fear about actually the pain of it. And, um, but I remember the doctor was like, okay, here's your, um, underwear that you're your diapers that you'll have to wear. And here's the ice and whatever. And I'm like, wait, what do you mean? She's like, well, yeah, your body has to heal. I'm like, oh, ⁓ God. I just thought it was so funny because I'm like, wow, this is like worse than the actual birth part, you know? And I was so worried about the giving birth part. I didn't think about the after part of your body as the then go back to normal.

speaker-0: I did not have that because I had 36 hours of life. And then I pushed for like two in that 36 and then she was like, one more time, but his head's not fitting. So, I did a C-section and I was like, oh. But my scar's pretty cool.

speaker-1: Gosh, are you kidding? ⁓ my gosh. But yeah, but your body has to heal that way, you know?

speaker-0: ⁓ man, that was rough. ⁓

speaker-1: Take care of a baby? ⁓

speaker-0: They don't let you leave the hospital until if you have a C-section and or at least at Aspen Valley Hospital until you can go around the ward twice like walking and you can barely walk because I mean it's six or seven layers they go through or that yeah disgusting sounding sorry to anyone eating right now. ⁓ By the way, I went to Marcus's office yesterday and he's a surgeon. He works on mouths and he was like, can I show you something? And I was like, yeah, sure. He pulls up all these bloody ⁓ pictures that he'd just taken from a surgery. And I was like, cool. I'd already thrown up yesterday from like dry heaving. had thrown up just like nothing. But when... our that same dog who had gotten to a bunch of treats of my sons from a trip. And so we were like, this is going to come out in some place, you know, like he's going to vomit somewhere. He's going to, yeah, all over Archer's rug, which is thankfully a ruggable. And, but I was cleaning it up and I was like, know, and then I finally threw up a little bit because it was so bad. And so I'm watching, watching, looking at these stupid pictures and I'm like, I've already thrown up today. I hate throwing up. Yeah, he like

speaker-1: So here's the question, when he, cause he's a surgeon, he's used to it. But when did he watch you get this?

speaker-0: Yes, he was on the other side. Yes. He was on the other side. He geeked out on it. ⁓ my gosh. Yeah, he is a picture of the whole thing.

speaker-1: ⁓ my gosh, that's so funny. thought maybe since it was like you and a baby, he would be like, you know, ⁓

speaker-0: They were like, want to come over here? remember because I was out of it, but I remember him being like, like he was taking photos and the whole nine. He was all about it. But he also grew up in the OR with his dad. His dad is ⁓ retired now, but a general surgeon. he loves the cuts. used to it. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, he was all about it.

speaker-1: So funny, which I didn't realize, but when I got the epidural, I waited like for a long time because I just, don't know why I wanted to, I wanted to know what the pain felt like. so, and then after a while, after like 10 hours, I was like, okay, I don't need it anymore. But when I got the epidural, they made my daughter's dad leave the room and I'm like, I don't, I don't care if, you know, if he, and they're like, No, it's not for you. It's for the usually the dads will all pass out watching the epidural. And I was like, ⁓ my God, this is so funny. The moms are here giving birth and the dad can't even take the epidural.

speaker-0: Yeah, well, it's okay. Funny, funny story there is I was in birthing class and there was a guy in there and it was a cartoon that they were showing about the epidural. It wasn't even like there was nothing about it that looked real. ⁓ All of a sudden, clunk on the ground, he falls out of his seat.

speaker-1: ⁓ my gosh, that is funny. He fainted from just the cartoon. ⁓ my gosh.

speaker-0: ⁓ They didn't offer Marcus to

speaker-1: They were like this happens all the time. It's a very big needle. Yeah

speaker-0: And anybody who's going through and is afraid of the big needle part when you're already in birth, you don't care. You will go through it. I had to get four epidurals. four tries. Three tries and one success. They kept on doing it and you know, to like lean forward over your belly. Like it's just most uncomfortable thing. And after the third try, because it kept on not like doing what it was supposed to do, it would like be in my toe. And I was like, should it be in my toe? You know.

speaker-1: ⁓ my god.

speaker-0: And he was like, no, and pull right back out, you know. And so then he was like, is there a possibility of a curvature in your spine? And I was like, yes. It wasn't any form or anything. feel like, okay, so again, if you're listening and you have scoliosis or I have a like spondylolisthesis, it's like something that runs in my family. And it's not clear. Like my sister has a huge scar. She had a massive back surgery when she was 11. So it's clear that she has something going on in her back. but it wasn't clear on mine. So if you have any sort of curvature, mention it.

speaker-1: ⁓ my ⁓

speaker-0: And to boot, after the third one, he was like, well, I don't feel as comfortable, basically, with this. So there's a specialist coming in, but she won't be here for a couple hours. Resume the pain.

speaker-1: ⁓ my god. Oh my gosh, the stories. What's so funny is you kind of like forget, you know, you kind of go through all of it and then you forget and you're like, wow, that, I mean, it's just, we get in there, we're tough, we do it.

speaker-0: Well, what else are gonna do? I know. Be like, never mind, pause. Yeah. Pause like a show. That's too much drama for me, thank you.

speaker-1: That's what I thought when she got, Lily was far enough along where I'm like, okay, well she has to come out and there's only like two ways to come out. I can't just go, nah, I don't want her to come out. Like I'll just skip it. I'm like, no, she's coming out whether I like it or not.

speaker-0: ⁓ Okay, so I want to move on to the last part because you already gave us your tips ⁓ for your younger self and I love them. This segment is called Hot Potato and it's usually about things that maybe someone has said to you whether it was in between trying or you know Maybe like you're getting older, you haven't started trying, you haven't met someone. It can be awkward. can be flat out rude. It can be anything, but just like, there anything that has happened in your, and maybe just as a mom, it doesn't matter if it was just in, you know, in the pregnancy part or trying. Is there anything that anyone has said to you that was like, whoa, that you maybe wish they hadn't said or maybe a cautionary tale for someone else out there? And if you don't, you don't.

speaker-1: really, I don't really have one, but I will say which this I guess will never change. But I just remember when they were like, ⁓ yeah, it's a geriatric pregnancy. And I was like, ⁓ that's like, that sounds pretty, you know, not great. And then they were like anything after 35 is a geriatric pregnancy. I was like, you know what, that's really, I feel like a lot of women are getting pregnant after 35. And I feel like that term should just be like something different. I don't know. So it's probably not going to change because it's a medical term, but like, you know, Babies are very healthy and can be just fine after 35. So why are you calling it a geriatric pregnancy? It's just bizarre to me. That was the only thing that came up in my head. was like, I don't like that. That doesn't make me feel good and healthy and like I'm going to deliver this great, beautiful, healthy baby. That makes me feel scared.

speaker-0: Okay, and I think they started up at least up here in the mountains and it's pretty progressive area who knows if this is anywhere else but progressive as in like ⁓ medical stuff, you know, like it's ⁓ They started, I feel like they started calling it like, mature. And I was like, okay, that doesn't help me. By the way, I already know it's geriatric. already know like it's, you know, I'm at this cutoff line, you know? So I think I almost like high risk better. Like they did say like some things are high risk and I almost prefer that to geriatric because geriatric sounds. like your, your in your actual board. Yeah. It doesn't give you confidence. And I was talking to my acupuncturist for an episode and she was talking about how, like if your body doesn't feel like it can, it's, it's harder to get there, you know, like if so. And she was talking more in terms of fight or flight mode. Like if your body doesn't feel like it's a safe place to, to carry baby. That's something that she does in acupuncture ⁓ on top of other modalities for helping with fertility, but one of them is the stress level. And that's one thing that's very prevalent in trying to get pregnant, especially when you're older. You already have the added stress that you're older and they throw terms around like geriatric or mature or high risk or whatever. That just makes you feel like you're a ticking time bomb. And when my friend said, she said, I want to come on to the podcast at some point, but... She's not ready yet because she hasn't even gone through the transfer process, but she's had so much issue in her past. And she said, I feel defective. And I was like, yeah, that's how you start to feel defective. And ⁓ people aren't defective. Products are defective. And so if you feel like a product and don't feel like a person throughout this process, it's just going to complicate it even further. And so I'm all for it, especially when you don't start.

speaker-1: No.

speaker-0: until you're geriatric. Like you were saying, like, you didn't freeze your eggs until you were 35. I didn't start trying until almost 35 because I got married at 33, you know? Yeah. So anyway.

speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks that's weird. I'm like, that's just a weird. I think it should be changed.

speaker-0: Well, and it just, I feel like it accelerates how you're already feeling. just ⁓ like adds to it. Because if you're already feeling old and then someone tells you you're on death's door, ⁓ reproductive wise, then yeah, your confidence level in your body to do what it's supposed to do is not gonna be like super high.

speaker-1: Like, they're like, you know what, you're later in life having this baby, so we're just going to be extra careful and we're going to do some just to be extra safe. And we're going to do this and it would just be like, okay, got it.

speaker-0: It's jarring word, think, you know, because it just makes you, it puts a lot of other things in your head. And so, yeah, it's not about saying, it's not about lying and saying, you're so young, you know, like, no, I know. ⁓ It's about how it is perceived in that moment when you're already in a stress position. A stressful mindset. And so just, and also you're very alone as a woman in that moment. I feel like. because the guy doesn't have to worry about that. And I think that's also another thing that. You can't really help somebody else understand what it feels like to have a clock if you don't actually have a clock. You know, it's really hard to describe and it can be dumbed down by people. I've heard it in my life, not from my husband, but other people like being like, okay, you you're just kind of, too type A about this. You're too nervousy, you're too anxious when really, about that. I just knew the facts, you know? The facts are the facts are the facts. And if it doesn't work, and I didn't try to do something about it, that's when things are really going to go wrong for me.

speaker-1: Yeah. And what's interesting too, like guys don't understand because they don't have it, but also girls don't understand when you're younger. I didn't understand. I mean, I knew at a clock, but I didn't start feeling it until you actually feel the clock. Yeah. Yeah. So it's hard to really like, you you don't know what it really feels like until you get there and you're like, ⁓ wait, I have a clock, you know? I mean, you know at 20, but you don't feel it.

speaker-0: Because you're not, it's not ticking yet. You can't hear it. And you also don't know what your life's gonna throw at you or not throw at you. So you're trusting the process, so to speak, up until that point, I feel like. And my parents had me, they got married at 20, they had me at 23, 24 respectively. And so in my brain, it was gonna happen. It was gonna happen probably like them because I liked their story, I was gonna try to model it. And then I didn't get married until I was 27, got divorced at 30. And then was like, whoa. Okay. This is not how I thought it was going to go.

speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. everything was, I mean, it's not the perfect journey, but it was the perfect journey because look at where you are now.

speaker-0: Yes, I wouldn't change a thing, not one iota of my journey. Getting a divorce when I did made me a better wife the second time around, made me more aware, made me more... So what I'm looking for, deliberate. ⁓ and then having struggles, getting pregnant and going through the whole gamut of stuff. just, it made me, feel like just a lot better of a friend to people who are going through things like that. And also, yeah. And just the awareness of all the things that have gone wrong. feel like have just made me a better person in general, you know, ⁓ not to mention.

speaker-1: Doesn't it make you to appreciate what you have with your husband now? you know, it's like, wow, you wouldn't have, you maybe would appreciate it, but not as much as you do when you know what it could have, you know, being in a bad relationship. It's like all those things make you so appreciative and thankful of that person you're with now that it's like, wow, I just, you I wouldn't, you probably wouldn't have taken him for granted, but you know, what if you did? probably would have.

speaker-0: Probably would have because I grew up with family. My parents are still married and so I probably would have taken it for granted. I took for granted that any marriage you get into works because I saw it modeled for me and that's not anyone's fault. no, I would have. I would have totally taken him for granted and I still do probably, but probably a lot less than I would have. And the same thing with being a mom. I had all these ideas. about everything in my life in terms of when I was gonna be a mom, how I was gonna be a mom, how many kids I was gonna be a mom to. All that went out the door. And I'm left with the present and I'm left with this kid who is just so cool. And I just love every moment of it. And I'm able to be present I think because I'm like, dude, this was a long journey. You better not miss this. And everyone says to me and I'm sure they say it to you, it goes by so fast. It's, you know, and it does. But I'm so aware of it going by so quickly that I feel like I'm benefiting from being older because I'm able to be more present. I think my body and my mind and my spirit have been able to really pull it in ⁓ after all of the above has happened.

speaker-1: Yeah, and it's led you to doing what you're doing now, which is just so beautiful. I love it. And I'm so happy I got to be on it with

speaker-0: Thank I am so thankful that you agreed to come on and share your story. know, again, being in the public eye at all, sometimes it's hard to talk about things, but your willingness, I mean, it's what drew me to you in the first place. ⁓ thank you. Thank you so much, Jennifer Wayne. ⁓ I, in terms of the songs, by the way, I've heard them and they are so good. That's actually what prompted me. You sent me the songs and that's what was like, do you want to come on the podcast? But, ⁓ I once they are available, I will readjust the show notes to reflect them. And I will also put out a post at that time to make sure everyone knows that they are available to listen to, to sing in the car, to play to their children. ⁓ but again, thank you, Jennifer Wayne for coming on and thank you everyone else for listening. ⁓ if you have questions for, sorry, I'm going to go ahead and offer you up, Jennifer. ⁓ I feel like everyone who comes on the show kind of knows this is going to happen. ⁓ If you have questions for either of us, please don't hesitate to reach out. I'll put all the information on how to get in touch with Jennifer and myself in the show notes. if you know anyone who's going through something like what Jennifer described, please share it. We are not alone in any of these journeys. As different as they are from person to person, they are similar. And it helps to hear that you are not alone, especially when you're in the thick of it. So please share. not for like subscribers, not for all the, you know, for the real reason that the show exists. ⁓ And we'll be back for another edition next week. Until then, take care.