Episode 29: Oh The Health Journey You'll Go On with Mackenzie Soderquist and Alex Leddy - Part 2

Small Batch Sound: Hey everyone, we're back with Alex and McKenzie. And we had to take a little break last time because of scheduling conflicts. And it was a long story anyway. So let's pick up where we left off, McKenzie. Where wherever you want to start back up, go for it. Yeah. So I think last time we left off, I had mentioned I was finally closing my health chapter. And, you know, I had thought that I had closed that many times before and hadn't, but this this felt like I finally was at the end of the road with all of my protocols with my functional NP. And so I was finally ready to dive in with my holistic fertility clinic, which is called HFI. So now we're at May, late May, early June of last year, 2025. And I'm finally ready to dive in. The way that HFI is structured is I had that initial consult. with Dr. Amatma, the naturopath that runs the clinic. And then from there they assign you to a practitioner. So I had a new practitioner at this point. I was working with her for my new protocol. And they had given me a roadmap from which to start at the start I would start with ⁓ building my hormone reserves. And then the end of it would be ideally getting pregnant. So Building my hormone reserves was super important for me because when we did all of my hormone testing, I think I mentioned we did a Dutch test, which was really telling for kind of what my hormones were doing. And I was tracking my cycle through that inido ⁓ device. My hormones were so bottomed out on that map that they provided through the Inido, they were like low, low, low. There were no like normal fluctuations throughout my cycle where they're supposed to be. And so that was going to be a huge component of of my protocol. That was really like where we needed to start. In addition, we were also working on gut health. And so I might have mentioned that any good practitioner, any good functional practitioner is going to start with your gut. And so that was definitely like something that we started with. In my GI map test, that test that kind of maps out all of your good and bad bacteria, any infections that you have, it showed that I did have some infections. I had pretty low commensal, which is the good protective bacteria. And I also had some inflammatory markers. And so those things aren't great for fertility. And we also needed to How does anyone get pregnant? Is really my question here. Like I wake up a lot of times and think, How does like when people get pregnant naturally? Like I I like kind of don't believe it happens. Like I'm like, there are so many ways for this to not happen as we talk about all the time on this podcast. And yeah, it's a miracle. It almost seems like you need to be like a beacon of perfect health in order to get pregnant. I agree with you on that. ⁓ but sorry to interrupt Couple other things in my roadmap that we were gonna focus on, building safety in my nervous system was a big part of it. I had, I remember at the time I was wearing an aura ring. And I don't know if you guys have that, but when it like maps out your stress, my stress was through the roof most days. And I didn't feel stressed out, but I think I had a ton of physiological physiologic stress because of all the conditions I had. That my body was dealing with. Like my body was like stressed to the max. And so what's funny, Alex, is I used to go into CU, and that would be when my stress would actually like come down to normal levels. That was like the only part of my day. I know. It would register that I took a nap, even if I didn't. ⁓ so it was great. I stopped wearing the aura ring eventually because it it was just too much information and it wasn't helpful specific to the stress. But, anyways, I was gonna say I don't need I don't need an aura ring to sometimes there's just too much information. So one cool thing that this clinic did, and then I'll kind of I'll I'll tie up the rest of my my roadmap was you know you're meeting with your practitioner every so often. They recommend monthly, but I was doing it like every two weeks. And then they also have these weekly mind body calls that everybody can just drop into. And so those are calls where they give you strategies to regulate your nervous system, because we all need that in order to get pregnant. You know, we talk about that really annoying saying, like, just relax if you're trying to get pregnant, which like is a really poorly conveyed message. But like I understand where it's coming from because if you want to get pregnant, you need to figure out a way to regulate your nervous system. If you're stuck in this fight or flight, which I certainly was, a better way to say that would be like find ways to find safety in your nervous system or find ways to, you know, move from sympathetic to parasympathetic, that rest and digest state. So that's like exactly what this call was. It was different strategies, ⁓ breathing exercises, body scans. It was, it was really cool. And so people could drop into that. ⁓ then we also talked about just optimizing my cycle. I know Alex went into kind of like the way a cycle is broken down, follicular, ⁓ ovulation, luteal phase. I mentioned that my cycle was super weird and I had never really tracked it up until this point. And when I was finally tracking it, it was fluctuating from like 35 to like 52 days sometimes. It was really crazy to see. And I was ovulating like no earlier than cycle day like 23. ⁓ so my luteal phase, that last part of your cycle, my luteal phase was super short. And you really want that luteal phase to be, I think, at least 10 days because that's your implantation window. And if it's shorter than that, usually I but I think that means that your progesterone is low. And again, my progesterone was low. So That was going to be how we optimized my cycle. And then finally, egg quality. I think this is what they did with everybody at the end of their protocol was just optimizing your egg quality. Cause that was something for me specifically had shown up in IVF. I wasn't getting good quality embryos. ⁓ and that was like definitely something that Dr. Amatma felt was like something we could manipulate. Whereas with my IVF clinic, it was kind of like these are the the embryos you're being given. I mean, there were a couple things that we added in, I remember with my protocols, but egg quality was a huge component of this protocol. So we started doing that. I had kind of kept in my back pocket, like maybe I would at the end of all this do a transfer with that other IVF clinic that we had shipped our embryos to that I had had a couple calls with. Just as like an insurance policy. Yeah. Cause I think deep down I didn't truly believe that I could get pregnant naturally. What made you think that? Just kidding. I don't know. You know, you go through this everything. You go through this for so long and you just assume your body is broken and it's it's really unfortunate. But I think I had mentioned when I started working with HFI in January when I had that initial consult, I had a call with a spiritual medium who's like specific to fertility. And so all along I had been having calls with her and she was telling me, I don't think your path is IVF, I don't think your path is surrogacy, which is like another thing we had looked into because we just wanted another insurance policy. You're gonna get pregnant naturally and it's gonna happen soon. And so, you know, we're now into the summer. ⁓ can I ask you, sorry, how much did you how much stock did you put in that? Was that like helpful? Or was it like now I have something else in my head? Like Yeah. To me, it could go either way. It's a good question. I This particular woman, I remember like ⁓ sometimes I felt like she was blowing smoke up my ass. And then other times I I was like, I was starting to see things she was saying happen in my life. And so I did really start to believe her. Cause she was like, These things are gonna happen in your life. You're gonna have stuff happen with your friends, you're gonna have these certain moments, and I started to see them happen, and I was like, You know evidence piling up a little bit. Yeah, in her favor. Yeah. So I eventually did start to really believe her. And now we're, you know, I think into August. And so I'm starting to see real real changes in my cycle. I'm starting to see my cycle shorten, my ovulation happen earlier, my fluctuations looked more normal and healthy. And so I'm starting to believe what she's saying. And I'm starting to, for the first time, get really optimistic about all this. Because I think throughout all of this, I just had this deep rooted pessimism that ⁓ you know, all of this bad stuff keeps happening to me. Will this ever actually work? And I think I would try to force that optimism, especially when we were going through IVF. And then it wouldn't happen. And I was like, why do I keep thinking this is gonna work out for me? Which is terrible to say. But you know, you go. But the same thing happens, ⁓ the evidence on the other side. Like the more shoes that seem to drop, regardless if it's fertility or ⁓ like, you know, a personal life thing, whatever, w the more time that you have somebody like something d like that that's evidence to say it can't work or it won't work. And so it's easy to like to slip, I feel like when you have so much negative being thrown at you that yeah, I mean, like and and talk about we you talked about stress. Like, yeah, no one when someone says relax, like it's it's really just like how that sounds like just do it, you know, as a as opposed to like, hey, what are some things that we can do to help you relax? Same thing. Like I feel like that's another reason I was in fight or flight all the time is I just had these negative this negative evidence all around me that nothing was working. Yeah. And so don't get your hopes up because if you get your hopes up, then you'll be really disappointed. It is just you're gonna crash even further. And so w seeing some good some evidence in the positive, you know, side of things is really nice. ⁓ I imagine. It was, yeah. And you're totally right. Like I th I all along kind of had been waiting for that other shoe to draw. So it it was really nice to finally see some positive improvement. In August, I finally decide I'm, you know, I'm seeing this spiritual healer and I'm starting to get a little bit more like spiritual and woo-woo myself. And I am like, you know what? I really I need to start like clicking into this mental side of all of this. One thing I had avoided doing this whole time was like. meditating and really sitting with it. Like I hadn't, I I I was going to these mind body calls, but the meditation was really hard for me because you don't see immediate results from it. It takes doing it for, you know, extended periods of time. And but I'm like, you know what, I I have to just like really drop into the to this positive mindset that I'm starting to shift into. And with that, I also started to really like manifest this future that I wanted for myself. And so I would get really specific with it. And the next like natural step in all of this was I decided that I needed to do a psilocybin retreat. Because I I was like, I want to get really deep into like maybe understanding why all this happened, but I also felt like I could work through some of the trauma. That I had been through. And like psilocybin assisted therapy is a legitimate therapy right now, especially in Colorado. There's a number of different facilities, clinics that do it. ⁓ I had actually connected with a woman that Alex connected me with that had done one here in the valley, and she had a really positive, positive experience. I met this woman at a birthday party who was the outreach coordinator for all the clinics in the valley. And it just felt really serendipitous. Like this is something I need to do. Like it it just felt like it was calling out to me that my cycle was improving. I felt like I was getting so close to being able to get pregnant, and this was gonna be the last step to like get my mind in the right place before it happened for me. ⁓ so I do this. psilocybin journey. So psilocybin is like the hallucinogenic ⁓ compound in in mushrooms. And I'm expecting it to go one way. I'm expecting to see this vision where like a light comes down from the heavens and like an ancestor comes to me and is like, this is why this happened to you. Here's your baby. This is your way out. And it wasn't like that at all, as I imagine Journeys are never the way we envision them to be. And so, ⁓ like I won't get into the specifics of what happened, but it it revealed to me something that I needed to deal with to get past in order to get to this like final place where I'm getting pregnant. There was a trauma that revealed itself to me. So what they say with with mushrooms is like, unlike other substances, it reveals the truth to you. Whereas other substances, like you can hide from the truth. Got it. And that's like again. And what I'll chime in I'll chime in on that too is like 'cause I've done a number of different journeys a around this, but the medicine gives you what you need to at the time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Say say more about that. So mushrooms specifically to Mackenzie's point is the you know, you can call them ⁓ like medicine. I mean it is. Okay. and psilocybin has been used, you know. in various spiritual ways with Native Americans and all sorts of things. But you know, from everything I've learned about psilocybin journeys and that kind of ⁓ realm, you you will it's like you can go in and expect to get certain messages or think that you're gonna get a certain type of information, but really it could be completely different than what you anticipate, but it gives you what you need. Like the medicine will give you what That's what I thought you meant, but I just wanted to make sure that I if even if I didn't get it, then maybe someone else would be like, What? And it's even if it's not I mean, it can be completely different what than what you expected. And I know what Mackenzie did, you know, what came up for her, and it was very different. Like we talked a lot about it, and it was very different than what I think she expected. Like I don't think she even knew, you know, some of the stuff was sort of like buried. ⁓ but it is kind of It it needed to come up. Mm. Yeah. And I've actually heard that anecdotally ⁓ from other people. I'm I've talked to my psychiatrist. We were just waiting for it to be pat leg legalized. Yeah, l yeah. He was just saying like 'cause he had he had done it and he ⁓ was like, I r highly recommend it c for you 'cause I had a trauma when I was nineteen that I had to w that I was working through last year. He was like, Until this happens, why don't we do this like program or whatever? And I probably would have benefited from that like, I don't know, a million years ago. But here I am. And ⁓ yeah, so I'm I'm I'm ⁓ I'm listening to you interested because like I I actually think I I still want to do it. So anyway, continue. Yeah. And I don't think that there's any like time that's too late because this this trauma that happened to me, ⁓ Well, I just meant for fertility reasons. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. I mean the baby I I think it can it can be applied to anything. But like Alex said, like it it reveal or it gave me what I needed at the time. I was not expecting it to be about this one thing, but it was like inextricably connected to my fertility. And that trauma, my body was holding. It was, I believe, physically blocking my body from being able to get pregnant, among the millions of other things that were going on in my body. So it was like something that needed to be released. But I came out of it and I'm like, well shit, now I have to contend with like this whole other thing. And I thought I was gonna tie up my fertility story in a pretty little bow and be, you know, have all the answers and be done. And that was not the case at all. So after this, I'm doing more therapy. I'm doing like somatic therapy, and I'm really working through this and I'm realizing that I have all these like cobweb, like these mental cobwebs that are kind of like blocking what I need mentally in order to get to this place where I feel like I can bre get pregnant. Like I I think deep down I didn't believe that I deserved a baby. ⁓ which is like crazy to say because like I know that I know that I do, you know? Yeah, but it's really, really easy. It's really easy to if especially I don't know ⁓ anything about your trauma, but I thought that my trauma from twenty years almost I guess it was a little less than twenty years was part of the reason why I didn't deserve it. And it was a long time ago. And be I it just there are a lot of ways for you to talk yourself into the worst case scenario. Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, you know, you go through All of these hurdles to get pregnant, and I had all these health issues. And I think deep down I felt like I put them on myself, like I deserved them in a weird way. And so I'm dealing with all this new stuff that I I never in I never imagined I would have to deal with. ⁓ right around this time, too, we're at about November of last year. I We we realized that we have a leak in our shower and that's relevant because we had mold in our bathroom. And that just threw a whole nother wrench in it that like brought me back to this health stuff. Yeah. I had had mold toxicity in the past. When you have mold and you have all these other chronic conditions like I do, it just like exacerbates it and it makes it way worse, can contribute to inflammation. It made my sleep really bad again. It's just not healthy, not good for fertility. So or like living. Or living. Yeah. It's not I mean, my husband isn't wasn't really affected, but I like immediately knew something was going on. It's kind of crazy. I have this like sixth sense. My parents just bought this place in Vail. And I walked downstairs and I was like, there's mold in here. And sure enough, they brought in a mold inspector and there was. So like I can sense an antenna. Yeah. Yeah. I start to girl from Mean Girls. I feel like it's about to rain. Yeah, there's a sixty percent chance it's already raining. Awesome. Yeah, so ⁓ all these thing all these new things are coming up, and I'm like, what the hell? Like I thought I was there and so it's November now. We're like, we need a vacation. And I think I think I mentioned that, you know, throughout this whole process, and like, you know, this goes for anyone going through fertility treatment, you can't really make plans in advance. So all of our vacations were very last minute. So we decide we're gonna go to Cabo. It's really easy to get to from Colorado. And we're gonna go for like three or four days before Thanksgiving, just a really quick trip to just get some sun. And while we are there, a couple things happen. We get news that my husband's grandma has pancreatic cancer. And so smiling before that. Sorry. That is not. No, it's I mean That's awful. Yeah. It was it was, I mean, not a huge surprise because she had been kind of declining that year, but that threw a wrench in our plans. That whole side of the family, instead of going to Austin, we decide we're gonna go to Minnesota. And Before we leave for Minnesota, I get exposed to some of the tap water in Mexico and I get norovirused. So all of this stuff is piling up and I'm watching, I'm still tracking my cycle, and now I I have this like significant gut insult happening. And I'm watching in real time my cycle get like worse and worse. Like it had been improving. It had been getting shorter. My ovulation had been getting better. HFI had wanted my ovulation to be around like day 16 because it had been so late. Ideally, it's like day 15 or day 14, but I was at like day 18. I was getting so close. And then I get norovirus and I'm watching this cycle get longer and longer. And I'm like, I'm not gonna ovulate this cycle. ⁓ Because what your body does is when there's a significant stress, it protects it from getting from a potential pregnancy. And so I'm watching it extend, extend. Finally, I ovulate on like day twenty five. And I'm obviously devastated because all this hard work had just been, you know, it like it's it seemed like it was just thrown out the window because I got norovirus, I got mold. I'm like, how long is it gonna take? To climb back from this. So all these things are happening. We get into the new year, into January of 2026. And by the way, just to chime in here, I saw McKenzie right around this time. And I, and like this is a significant because about then, you know, anyways, I have never seen Mackenzie in such a low place. Like I you know, I've been able to be a part of her journey for, you know, a good portion of it. And this was the lowest when she got back from her trip and the mold and Riley's grandmother and the norovirus like was the lowest I've ever seen her. ⁓ in terms of like her spirit and just like her, you know, like the light was going out and I was just like, don't give up, you know. And I think she was digging deep into her spiritual side. you know, everything that had happened with the psilocybin journey. Like I think she tapped into a lot more spirituality along this road in general, since the Mackenzie I met in the beginning and the McKenzie. But anyways, continue. Yeah. No, that's that's right. Because I had I had gone. You've like started to go up, but then you were like boom. I was finally like, I was annoyingly I was that annoying positive person to my friends. Like that's the person I had become after I start like before the psilocybin journey b when I started meditating and manifesting. ⁓ and if you're interested in in getting more into that, read Dr. Joe Dispenza. He's really cool. ⁓ that's kind of who I was I was into at the time. So I had done like a click link in the show notes. Yeah. I had done like a complete 180, and I was now, like Alex said, at like the lowest point that I had been. Grandma Margaret, Riley's grandma, is still alive. So we decided we're gonna do one more trip to Minnesota to see her. It was the first week of January, and I was also gonna happen to be ovulating that when that weekend that we were there. However, You know, like I said, my my cycle had gotten longer. I it was predicted where that I would ovulate around like day 20 or day 21. And deep down, I think I was like, there's no way I'm gonna get pregnant on cycle day 20 or 21. But I'm gonna go anyway. We're gonna this is probably when we're gonna say bye to her. And I get home from Minnesota. He ends up staying a little longer. And when I got home, I was just feeling the weight of everything. I was like, why did I why did I like travel to Minnesota? Cause I was gonna be obvious like this all felt crazy to me. And I felt like for the first time in all of this, like I was done. Like I was at my breaking point and I needed to stop. Because January marked four years since we first started trying. And I just couldn't keep going at this rate that I was going at. And so I decided on my own, I waited. Until Riley got back. I did have a call with my practitioner, but I was like, I need to stop for my my sanity, for my marriage. Like, I can't keep taking all these supplements. I can't keep tracking. Like, I need to just completely stop. And so it's a job to do that stuff. It totally is. It's a it's a full-time job because one thing that I didn't mention is I was tracking with that inido device, but HFI uses a Mira. So they sent me a Mira. So I was using two devices and I was also using a temp drop, which is an arm band you wear to track your basal body temperature. It's it's great. It instead of tracking manually, like at the same time every morning, it just tells you your BBT. But I was getting so much information and needing to track every single part of my cycle that I was like, I can't do this anymore. I need a break. So I didn't know how long that break was gonna be. But again, I was like, I wanna tap back into the me that I uncovered in in August. And so I finally start feeling like a weight has been lifted. I'm I I finally feel like free from all of this. And I'm like, I don't know how long this is gonna be. Probably like at least a month. But I just I really don't want to think about this for like the first time. This entire four year stretch has happened. And so Riley gets home on ⁓ a Saturday, the next Saturday. I wanna say it was January tenth. And that evening his grandma passes away. I'm gonna try not to get emotional. Yeah. ⁓ the next day we go skiing. At Aspen, and we're in the sun deck, and I start to get cramping. I go into the bathroom and I've gotten my period. So I'm like, all right, great. I'm glad I made this call to stop because I didn't get pregnant this cycle. And, you know, this just confirms that I made the right decision. So go about my life. A week later, literally a week later, the following Sunday, I start to get more bleeding. And I'm very confused because it's kind of a significant amount of bleeding and I've never gotten mid-cycle bleeding before in my life. And so I messaged my practitioner and she's like, why don't you take a pregnancy test? And you came in to see me like then too. And you were like, I'm having this. I've had my period. I'm bleeding. And I was the opposite of what I would have thought to take a pregnancy test. Well, it was just kind of like her practitioner advised to get a pregnancy test. And I was like, I agree. Because it's not in it's just not in the normal because there is implantation bleeding that can happen. But anyway, it was so I was very confused because I got my I thought I got my period the Sunday before. Like it was my period is never heavy. It's always been light, you know, which, you know, happens when you're dealing with all the things that I've been dealing with. You have a thin lining, your hormones are low, all of that. I've always Had a pretty low, a pretty light period. And so yeah, the next day, I think it was like Martin Luther King Day, I go in to see Alex. I'm like dawdling all day long, forget to take this pregnancy test. And eventually I'm like, ⁓ yeah, I need to just take this and see that it's negative and just move on with my life. And so I take one of the pregnancy tests that come with the ovulation predictor sticks. It's like a cheap one. Mm-hmm. I forget that I take it. I go back into the bathroom and there's two solid lines. And I'm like, wait a second. I I know I I'm not positive that this means positive, but I know from the many COVID tests I took that two solid lines means positive. So I'm like FaceTiming Riley, who happens to be traveling of all days. ⁓ and I find one one of the like clear blue tests, the better tests, and it comes back. Very clear positive pregnant. And I have never been so confused in my life because of all these things I mentioned. I I ovulated on day 20. My luteal phase that cycle was like maybe seven days. And all of these things don't add up to a pregnancy in my mind. So I'm in a very bright, bright lines. Yeah. So I'm like calling Alex. I'm like, Alex, I don't Like, did we do anything that could have impact like could impact the pregnancy? And she's like, no, not really. I call my practitioner. And I'm I like I don't think I ever fully expected to be in this place where I would see a positive pregnancy test, especially in the circumstances that I mentioned. Like I thought that I needed to have a perfectly optimized cycle. I needed to be perfectly healthy. Like I had just come off of norovirus. So I'm still bleeding. And my practitioner is like, I want you to start supplementing with progesterone suppositories, like similar to the ones that your IVF clinic would give you, like exactly the same, actually. And I want you to go in and get your HCG and your progesterone tested. And so my progesterone came back like so low, like follicular levels low. It was like maybe a 1.4, where in order to sustain a pregnancy, You want that level to be at like eight, maybe minimum. And so I had a call with Dr. Amata, in addition to my practitioner, and she was like, I think, you know, your your progesterone is really dropping. Like we want you to be on this progesterone suppository. But they're also telling me, like, in a roundabout way, not saying this directly, but like I was thinking expect to miscarry. Cause it's basically the same, like. mechanism where like you don't have high enough progesterone, your body loses the pregnancy. Yeah, it doesn't stick. Yep. And so I'm bleeding, you know, it's the week goes by and eventually the bleeding starts to stop. It turns to spotting because I'm taking these suppositories. And the next progesterone test we run, my levels are like an eight. And then the next week they're like an 11. And my HTG is doubling, it's quadrupling. And I'm like holding my breath this whole time, like kind of still expecting like I'm gonna miscarry. Like I don't fully believe I'm pregnant. Like none of this seems believable at this point. And so looking back on everything that had happened, you know, like I said, I I I started to become a lot more spiritual throughout all of this. And Riley's grandma died, and literally the next day I got pregnant. As she was as she was leaving, like this new soul was entering. And so I think that that's that that's why I got pregnant. Like I I I think like more than any of the other stuff, like that was why it happened for me in the way that it did. he had told her, and and you know, I should mention, like, she was he and her were very close. Like he had had a closer relationship with his grandma than he did with like his dad for most of his life. Like she was his his person, his rock. And so we had always said, if we have a girl, we're gonna name her after his grandma. And he had told her that the day before she died. And and, you know, she had been praying for us all along. Like she would say, I pray for you every single night. And it all just felt like this was By design, like there was no component of this that was coincidental. So I'm thinking we're having a girl. And I have never been more shocked in my life to find out that we're having a boy. What what's your what's the grandmother's name? ⁓ her name's Margaret. Okay. How can we make that a boy name? We're not going to. Okay. We're not going to. But yeah, it was just it was crazy how it all unfolded. Like I said, I never in a million years imagined it to work this way, but I think it was by design that it happened this way. And somehow I made it through the first trimester and this strong little embryo hung on. Think he really wants to be here. So now I'm 32 weeks at the time of recording and it it feels It feels crazy that this is all unfolded in the way that it has, but it also feels very appropriate that it unfolded in this really special wild way. Yeah. And I think like, you know, from being part of this journey with Mackenzie, it's like there's multiple pieces here. And this is why I was so excited for her to tell her story, because it's like there's the physical component of just really trying to get healthy and focus on you know, clearing inflammation, you know, really getting to the bottom of some of these sort of, you know, longstanding health things. I think there's benefit for that, whether you're trying to get pregnant or not. You know, like I feel like it would have reared a secondly head some way at some point. This just kind of like drew all the attention straight to like these are the things you need for your body and sustain life in general. But what I've always said to Mackenzie too is like it's been such an interesting journey because she's also in the healthcare, she's, you know, focused on nutrition. I have noticed that she is she's talking like a science y person and I none of these words would have come out of my mouth except for like I don't I mean I when I did my IVF like series or whatever, I had to type it out 'cause I was reading. You know, like I mean I knew what happened, but it's just not my my my way. Yeah. The whole you know, like there were so many things along the way that I would say to her, like, you're you're getting a first hand education in nutrition and all of these things. Like you ha now have personal experience and all of that. This was before she got pregnant. So of course it's like, you know, there's a l level of like, okay, you know, who cares? Right? Like, I don't care about that. I just want to get pregnant. And it's like, but then when you fast forward, you look back on it and it's like such the whole journey you know, now there is she is pregnant and she can look back on it and have like joy. And now you have this full experience of this incredible journey, this education that you have that you can bring firsthand to patients that you will have in the future, the spiritual aspect, which I really saw unfold with her with the psilocybin journey, but also like when she was when I jumped in and said she had like the lowest of the low. But then then she was pregnant. She got pregnant after that. And like I tell her story now to people without using her name, but I'm like, it it's something that you just don't give up. Like, don't give up. You can be in like the darkest place. And sometimes it's like really that that complete spiritual surrender. And I don't claim to know about what's beyond what we are experiencing here. But like sometimes that's what faith is. Having it exited like getting sort of broken down sometimes to that like complete vulnerability, that complete surrender. And then and then this was able to happen for her. And then also like the spirituality with her grandmother, like I mean Riley's grandmother. I just don't think there's any there are any mistakes. And it's like, yes, it was a really hard road, but like she never gave up. And it's so beautiful because there are so many components. And so much perseverance and like so many I d I just think it's such a beautiful story and I'm so happy for her and all the things you went through, I think in the end are worth it. I mean it's so hard, but you've learned so much and you've gained so much and you've conquered so much and I just applaud you, you know. And I was happy to be part of it. And I I hope that this gives people hope out there, you know? Yeah. Well me too. Giving up 'Cause you kind of said you got to that point, but you didn't give like all the way up. You just gave in a little. I surrendered. It was it it was the first time I was like, I am gonna let go of this death grip I have on the situation and just let it unfold in the way that it's meant to. And then it happened. Yeah. You know, you always hear about that. Like when That's how I met Marcus, my husband, is when I finally was like, Whatever. And it was the least Kind of like what you're saying, like the least op ⁓ like day twenty versus you know, fourteen or whatever, and you're like, No, it won't be working. It's not gonna work. And then all of a sudden it works. I mean, meeting someone who lives in Aspen was not the plan, you know? So it's just like the most in improbable. That's what I was gonna say, set of circumstances, and it finally worked, like that's insane. But I feel like that's the the A, it's a really good story. To s to be able to tell your son, you know, this is this is how this ended up. Like, I just think that's amazing. But it always does seem to happen that way. But you can't for just like you can't force relaxation, you cannot force that moment where you flip it over and you're like, okay, whatever. Yeah. It was like all those things led to my breaking point where I was just like, I surrender and I'm gonna do what I need to do for myself and not continue to force this. And then it happened. And it was really wild. It was really beautiful. And yeah, to your to your point, Alex, like I at that, at that point in my journey in my life, I was a completely different person than I had been four years prior. Even like completely. When I started seeing you to the person I am now, like I've changed pretty much pretty much all the important stuff in my life. Like you guys were alluding to the science stuff. I I did I quit my job in 2023. I was working at a PR and marketing agency. And this was when I was doing the IVs, the hyperbaric oxygen therapy. I was spending Hours, like five hours a week at these appointments. And I was like, I cannot sustain this and get healthy at the same time. And I just, I feel like I don't want to do marketing anymore. So I took a little break and eventually found my way into holistic nutrition. And the funny story around that is actually my IVF doctor, my reproductive endocrinologist, after my second, or sorry, after my First failed transfer, we had to go back and do another egg retrieval because we didn't have any embryos left. I had said to her, What can I do to improve my chances from like a diet and lifestyle perspective? And she said, There's nothing you can do because you're healthy. And I was like, wait a second. Have you missed the part where I have Lyme disease? and also, like, I don't buy that. I like it. How how are you able to see that I'm healthy? Like you can look at a person and they might look healthy on the outside, but like you have no idea what's going on inside their body. So I was like, I felt like that was like a really offensive comment in a way. And it kind of like put me on a mission where I was like, I don't buy that at all. I'm gonna start to look into this and see if I can actually like change my fate through nutrition. Like there's gotta be more to this. And so we could add this to the show notes as well. I picked up a book that basically inspired my whole nutrition journey. It's Real Food for Fertility by Lily Nichols. She's amazing. And it just changed my outlook on everything. And so I I also remember going to Alex's office and she was recommending a woman in the valley who was like a new naturopath. And I was like, I actually know this girl from college. And I started thinking about it and I was like, I could open up my own practice. And so all these ideas started swirling. And so I started studying nutrition. I actually finished my entire program yesterday. So my gosh. Yay! Yeah. So I turned. I turned to my last assignment. It was like a little over two years. And I'm I'm gonna be actually opening up a practice when I when I come back from maternity leave next year. I don't know when, but Like I said, I've changed my entire life. I've Yay McKenzie. I'm gonna be focusing on ⁓ like fertility and like maternal specific nutrition. So yeah, little plug for for that. ⁓ yeah, I I've changed everything about my life, basically. Like I I think in a weird way this was all meant to happen the way that it did. They say when you go through infertility, like from a spiritual standpoint, it means that there's like something in your life that's unfinished, like something you need to something you need to to really like bring to to the focus to come and and come to terms with it. And that was like absolutely true for me. Like I I couldn't keep going down the same path I was going down. And it's not like I was going down a bad path, but I just wasn't doing what I was meant to be doing, I think. at the beginning of this journey. I can concur, not with what you're saying about you. I mean I I believe you, but I I do feel like my mine didn't happen before I got pre I don't think like I found what I needed to do before the pregnant like I it didn't come coincide, I guess. But I feel more I think this word is overused, but I'm gonna say it because it I can't think of a synonym. ⁓ I feel more aligned with myself now than I ever did before. And I'm talking about fertility. I'm talking about things that that are hard. I'm going I'm doing the I'm doing the stuff that matter to me most, which is getting people comfortable telling their stories and getting people who aren't comfortable to at least hear that they're o they're not alone. That is a passion of has always been a passion of mine. And I feel like my infertility gave me the vehicle to do it. And so I completely agree. And I I had to go through a bunch of bullshit to get to this point outside of just the fertility, but I do think it it had a way of like like putting a spotlight on it and like getting rid of all the other stuff to say like, okay, this is clearly not who you are. This is clearly who you are. And then even and I will I will say taking a step further, when you become a mother, if that's your p your plan and your hope, if you get to that point and ⁓ it even brings it like it narrows it even more in the best of ways. Cause everything's just so clear. It's not clear right after you have the baby, but it is clear later once the fog lifts. Yeah. And you And I think that's I think that's incredible. Like I think that's what you were meant to do. Like have women on on this podcast to be able and give them a platform to be able to tell their stories. Like I'm so appreciative to be able to tell this story because I really hope there's someone out there who's like, ⁓ my God, I've been having like all this like these systemic health issues and I was thinking about going through IVF, but you know, kind of what Dr. Motma to, yeah. Yeah. What Dr. Matma was saying all along to me was even if you want to go back to IVF, you need to deal with these health issues. Cause you can put a perfectly healthy, like well-rated embryo in an unhealthy body and it's not going to work. Like you need to deal with the inflammation. You need to deal with so many things. You're just going to be like wasting your time and spinning your wheels. And so As the slow cooker, it's a slow process. It can be really slow, as we've talked about today, or you've talked about. But like your body is the house the whole time. It's it's it's not like, well, I made it and then it's like a microwave. Like you take it out soon and it and it grows somewhere else. Like, yeah, maybe IVF can help you grow start the process outside of the body, but the body is where everything's happening for the rest of those nine months. So yeah, you gotta take care of your house. Your house has to be ⁓ hospitable. Totally. Yeah. And and the perspective I had on IVF going into it was this this can probably happen quickly. Like this can probably be like a workaround solution if I still have because you know, I had been working on my health issues all along. It's not like I just ignored them, but I wasn't all the way there. And I was hoping that IVF could kind of like work around that and it just couldn't. Like I still I still needed to do more work and you know, maybe there's a woman out there that's dealing with all or maybe some of the same symptoms and and I can get through to them and yeah, hopefully help someone. I'm sure you will because if nothing else, like if nothing else, what you're like you are you told you and Alex both told me this will probably be a two parter 'cause there's so much information. And at first I was like, Do we need to do all the and and I didn't say this out loud, but like my first thought was like, how many details do we really need? But as I heard your story, because this is pre-meeting, ⁓ meeting up with you at the coffee shop, the details are the point. It's like because w like if you take away nothing else from this, which no one's gonna just do that, but if nothing else. It's that there are twists and turns and twists and turns. It's not linear at all. You had so many loops and spirals and and you know, ups and downs that at any point you could have just been like, screw this and given up on ⁓ not just the fertility part, but your health. You know, like it it could have been worse worse off, like a a double whammy of I'm not getting the baby, ⁓ you know, the pregnancy that I'm hoping for, and I still feel like shit. And so, I mean, you had so many opportunities with the negative ⁓ moments in this story that you could have given up ⁓ and given in in like the worst way, not the surrender. And so I think ⁓ what I am taking from this is that the mystery, it seemed like a mystery for most of the time. And then it was like you would get a glimpse of the clarity and then more clarity. And it's not just the physical, it's also the spiritual. It's also the you know, the the stress and stuff that's been just holding on for dear life inside your body. And so ⁓ I to me it gives it would give it would give me hope if I were like I feel like the exception to the rule that my body can just function properly and to keep digging. Like keep digging. And that also leads me to practitioners. You are a big advocate just from me hearing like for the right match. For ⁓ the right doctor, the right ⁓ you know, it's not just their credentials. It's like, do you have good vibes? Do you feel heard? Do you feel seen? Are they being cre proactive, creative, all those things? And I loved how this whole time you were talking about being willing to ⁓ fire people, you know? Like, hey, just because you have this knowledge doesn't mean we're the right fit. And that's I think really important to not just assume that. Everybody is ⁓ qualified for your experience and what you're going through. Yeah. And I think too, it's like it's an interesting thing where you don't always know you know, like when you're in it, you can't always see the benefit of what you're going through. But when you're looking at like your life journey, and when I look at McKenzie, it's like again, the person that I met in the beginning and then the person that ⁓ who McKenzie is now. About to be a mom, and she's so much softer and patient, and has had this, like, you know, persevered with her studies, a lot of which was like trying to understand her own situation that fueled like a lot of the learning. And and there's just so much beauty in like the whole growth of it and getting out of that. Like, I'm gonna do this fast, I'm gonna do this fast. You know, I'm gonna tackle it this way. It's gonna happen. You know, like and it her whole approach to life is different now. And I think we're a really big yeah. It is like now she has these amazing tools as a mom. And like again, when you're in it, you're like, What is this all for? This is the worst. Like this is never gonna end. And then you look back on it and it's like this was this was part of the path. And it's like again. It's just encouraging people, you know, to your point about the details, it's like there are a lot of details. There's so many things, but it's like not giving up and then sometimes if you can't see the the point of it all, just know, like to me, it's like that spiritual thing, like there is a purpose, you will probably understand it later and it can really be beautiful and don't give up. You know? If it's something you really want and you see for yourself and you know that within yourself, Keep persevering. Yeah. Keep searching, keep digging, all the th all the things. ⁓ so, okay, you just finished your nutrition thing. Again, yay. ⁓ and practice stuff. Obviously, like whenever you get that, please I'll I'll update the show notes as ⁓ or you know, no. We're gonna do I have a new thing. I mentioned microwaves earlier, versus a slow cooker. I have a new little like, it's called ⁓ A slow cooker instant takes and it's a little the the logo is is an actual like old school microwave. ⁓ because this is like a long form and then I have I've had some people come back on, I haven't put ⁓ out yet, but little like updates. And so that's so when when you're when you get back up and running and you're mommining ⁓ and and you know, sleeping somewhat. ⁓ we can we can talk about your new your new space and all that. So I w I'm formally inviting you on there. ⁓ back on for that rather. Do you have two things. Do you have any advice that you have? Obviously your whole story is a piece of advice, but do you have anything that you would recommend to someone going through either IBF or just fertility? Like something that is like distilled? Yeah. For sure. ⁓ you were you were getting at this, you, you know, you were talking about all the practitioners I had seen. And I would just say like find the best team for you because IVF wasn't a good fit for me. That doesn't mean that it's not a good fit for somebody else, but make sure you're working with the best doctor. You know, you're advocating for yourself. You've built up a team around you that is the best fit for you. Because As I went through this, I certainly like kissed a lot of frogs. You know, I I saw a lot of practitioners that were not that great. And I also kind of drove myself crazy seeking out all these different treatments that like maybe just added more stress when in in reality, I I needed to just like pair back and work with the the you know main few people that were truly helping me. And I would say like Alex was a huge part of that for me. Like not only was she my acupuncturist, which like was the only thing that brought down my stress levels. as per my aura data. ⁓ it it's it's honestly crazy because I felt like my husband was up here. I mean, I know we're on a podcast, so you you can't see my hand if you're not watching, but her hand is up. My hand is up. My husband was up here for like support. And then Alex was like the next person. Like literally. She was she was the next person. I know. Like you were you were like my absolute rock throughout all of this. Like I I don't think I left. She was for me too. And I and I know she's like that for all of her patients. Like she just has a magic touch, a magic way of like really connecting with people and making you feel seen and heard. And she was so helpful in my journey too, because You know, she was making all these helpful suggestions and I I followed them and like I don't doubt that that wasn't like a reason that I got to the place that I I am now pregnant. So she was a part of my team. Make sure you have the best possible team. thank you for saying that. Yeah. And then treat your health like it's your number one priority. Like, you know, for me, it was very obvious that I had all these underlying health issues contributing to my infertility. But You know, infertility doesn't just like exist on its own. Like there's there's gonna be some kind of imbalance going on in the body. And so and for some people, for me it was significant. And then for other people, you know, it might be as small as like an iodine deficiency. It can be significant and it can be tiny, but there's there's gonna be some kind of imbalance going on that like And this could be in the male too. You know, it this could exactly not be in the female. It could be ⁓ if you're not getting pregnant. naturally or whatever. So it's it's worth just mentioning. I saw this statistic. I can't remember where I saw it. It might have been Dr. Amatma on her socials, but it said that ⁓ fertility is fifty one percent the woman and forty nine percent the man. Which is like not what we think, right? We think it's gonna be like seventy five percent, twenty so like that's that's important. So yeah, the the The male of the equation needs to be healthy as well, for sure. Yes. ⁓ and then last, if you can get a dog, like it's it's very helpful throughout all this process having like a a little friend. I don't know what I would have done without my dog. ⁓ Ollie Ollie is sitting over here and can yes, also can concur. Yeah. ⁓ well that is great advice. ⁓ And nothing nothing like just relax. So we appreciate that. ⁓ here at the podcast. ⁓ speaking of that, do you have any hot potatoes you want to share? Yeah, yeah, I do. I c I have a few. Okay You know, for the most part, like I would get comments as I was going through IBF, like literally like the just relax. And I I think for the most part I was really good at letting them like roll off my back and not getting offended. But there were a couple moments where people caught me and I was like not in a good mindset. ⁓ I can think of one. I was this was last summer. It was last July. So we were in Minnesota, where my husband is from, and we were out on the lake on a friend's boat, and we met up with a bunch of other boats and we all tied up. And I hear this guy, he comes from his boat onto ours and I hear him start to talk to Riley. I'm like at the front of the boat, like scrolling on my phone or something. And I hear him mention, hey, I hear you guys are going through IVF. We did IVF. And I was like, hell no, I do not want to have this discussion right now. And so I was a boat. Leave me alone. I think I had like, you know, and I I didn't drink really throughout this whole process, but I I think I had had a couple beer or not beers, because I don't eat gluten. It w you know, maybe like seltzers or something. and I was just not in the mood. So I literally like dive off the front of the boat, swim around so I can get to our friend's boat and avoid this man. I was picturing you like hiding behind the boat until he left, but yeah. He he comes he comes and finds me. Yep. He comes and finds me maybe like thirty minutes later. And he's got his So I hear you're going through IVF. Yep. So he's he brings it up. He's like, I hear you're going through IVF. We actually we went through IVF too. We actually had this baby via surrogate. And I'm trying really hard to be like, uh-huh, yeah, yeah, you know, we're doing it, you know, whatever. But I just start like bursting into tears. And this man was he was very nice. Like he had the best intentions, but I just like couldn't keep it together. And so that was like one of the moments where I was like, this is not what you need to say to me right now. Yeah. word to the wise, if somebody dives off a boat after you start talking to her husband about stuff, that is your cue. Not to bring it up thirty minutes later. Don't she want to find her to bring it up. Freed the room. Yeah, he felt terrible. And and I he had all the best intentions, but it was just not it was not the right moment. and then one other moment that was that was ⁓ really difficult is ⁓ one of my one of my best friends, she has four kids. So she has not had fertility struggles and I think hasn't really understood what I've been going through. ⁓ before our last transfer, it was so it was December of of twenty twenty four. I had texted her happy birthday. And she responded a couple days later. I had texted her like in between the transfer happening. So by the time she responded to me, we had found out that the transfer had failed. And she kind of starts the conversation like, ⁓ my God, I just got out the hospital. I've been so sick this time. It's crazy, like with nausea. Kind of like assuming that I know she's pregnant, even though she hasn't told me yet. And at this point, Like the I think the day before I had found out our transfer failed. And so I was just like, you know, we just found out our transfer failed. Like I can't talk about this now, like not the right time. Mm-hmm. And I remember she had like sent over an emoji that was like, Yeah, I'm pregnant, and then like a disgusted face. And I was just like, This is this is just the worst possible time to like get this news and like the way it was delivered was just not. Good. Yeah. and so yeah, we I think she was really like by the way I reacted, I think she was really nervous to like speak to me again in general. And so she kind of gave me space for like the next six months. Like we really didn't talk much for the the next year. We finally did the following Christmas and I I like really told her how I felt and she told me like, you know, I stay up at night sometimes thinking about What I said. I know. And like I hated hearing that. Like I I don't think I was a good friend to her. Yeah. Because I couldn't be. But also like it was just not delivered in the best way. So that if if I just think about like things that were said that were like that stood out that kind of like scarred me throughout this process, like that was one of them. Well, and I'm glad you brought that up because I feel like that kind of thing happens a lot more than people talk about out loud because it's like It's it's it's a little sticky. Like it's like it's not about who did the right thing here. She's not wrong for talking about something that she's experienced in her life with her her journey. It's the thing is that we're all on this, like, I don't know, however many lane highway, and we're all going different speeds in different kinds of cars. Some of us have broken down cars and other people have a limousine, you know, no problems, just popping them out. And some people have, you know, like they think they have a good vehicle and then they don't have a good vehicle and they're just like, you know, on the side of the road being like, Hello, you know, help me out. And if we none of us can see each other all the time and if you don't tell somebody, so like this is a this is a to me like a c a case for both sides. To be keeping people informed in your life who are like close to you, this This is one reason that could it could be helpful. Like, how are you feeling about it? What's going on in your life? But then the other side is like it's your life, it's your privacy. You get to not mention everything. You don't wanna necessarily reg regale every single person in your life or like post about it if that's not your your jam. ⁓ the all the ups and downs in your in your world, because you don't wanna either have feedback or you don't you just are you maybe you're just a private person. And so like there's no right way to do this, but because we're all going through it at a different time and we all have different experiences. I feel like these little minor fender benders, to use my metaphor to an extended way, ca can happen. You know, it can be awkward, especially if y someone doesn't understand how infertility works, ⁓ or how it feels because I do, like I, you know, I'm very aware of it. Alex has not experienced it, but she's around it all the time. So she knows how to handle it. And I think again, that's just another reason to talk about it more and more so that people are aware and they can kind of maybe see signs or I don't know, like ⁓ read the room, as you said earlier. ⁓ and yeah, I think more talking better than is better than less talking. So that, you know, I'm so glad that you and your friend finally did talk and clear the air because that's really important, obviously. ⁓ but I've I've definitely s have stuff in my life that I've been like, ⁓ I wish I hadn't said that. And it'll st it'll keep me up. It's not necessarily about fertility, but that stuff can like kind of ruin, you know, it can eat away at you. So I put my foot in my mouth all the time. I have like terrible word vomit. I can't believe I haven't had it on this podcast. It's a miracle. But yeah, I think, you know, from her point of view, from the the friend's perspective, who doesn't understand infertility because they haven't lived it, I think, and I I totally understand why she, you know, gave me space the way that she did. I I I probably had I not experienced it myself, like might have done the same. But I think, you know, from my point of view, that hurts even more because it feels like you're just even more isolated. And I think if you're if you're maybe if this could be like my last piece of advice, if you're like a friend to someone going through infertility, even if you don't know what to say, just check in and be like, How are you? I don't know what to say to support you, but I'm here. That is so much better than advice. Not saying anything at all because you know then time goes by and I like Well something's gonna fill the vacuum. Mm-hmm. And it's And it's gonna probably not be good. Yeah. It's gonna be something like, well, what did I do? Or it's it's just gonna a I think add more questions to the mix that aren't n necessarily helpful when you're already going through a lot in the infertility, you know, saga. Yeah. And it's hurtful. Like it feels hurtful when someone is just absent, even if they're doing it 'cause they don't know what to say, but the absence is hurtful. It's like yeah, it's better to just be like, I don't know what to say, but I'm still here. I mean I would agree with that a hundred percent. Me too. Yes. Me too. Ugh, you guys are great. I this is when this is we sort of thought this is gonna be shorter, but it ended up being like another hour. Sorry. Which isn't no, it's good. It's I think we we've we've gone places, you know, when you when you do a part two a couple weeks later, it's you don't really know what is gonna come out and I think there are so many good ⁓ pieces and talk about tying it with a bow. It's not like, you know, maybe it's like a tattered bow, but it's a bow that we did here. And ⁓ happy thirty two weeks at the day of recording, number two, the part two and finishing school. Yes. Thanks. ⁓ so so much to celebrate this time and ⁓ also just like finding your calling. Like in two different ways. Like you're becoming a parent like you wanted to and you're you're you're stepping into like it sounds like Who you who you were all along just didn't know it yet. So I am so, so excited for you. And Alex, you really are ⁓ some glue. You know, you are some well, needly glue. ⁓ you're just a wonderful asset. And so I mean, talk about a team. ⁓ having a team, especially if you're like going through stuff ⁓ where you have to travel, you know, like for IBF, you have to travel, like having someone on the ground was so key. ⁓ and Alex was at for me. So I I second, third, fourth, ⁓ all the good things that were said about her today. And so if you're in our valley, ⁓ go see Alex ⁓ for anything, not just fertility, just anything. ⁓ she can help you out and your aura ring ⁓ stress information can get can get like, you know, ⁓ in the positives. ⁓ I've been part of the journey. I've just been very honored to be part of all the journeys and I'm honored to be here. Thank you, Ashlyn and Mackenzie. I love you both. So Me too. Me too. I'm so glad to have met you through through Alex McKenzie. ⁓ and I'm so thankful that you were willing to come on and tell your story as while pregnant and hormonal and well done with the minimal crying. Just kidding, you could have cried the whole time. It would have been fine. I could have. And ⁓ and I appreciate everything that was said on here and I know that it will be helpful. We'll put all the things that we can figure out and find in the show notes for any ⁓ for anyone out there who might benefit from that. Speaking of benefiting, if this episode resonated with you or if you think it would resonate with someone in your life, please share it. ⁓ we need this conversation to keep going. and I'll be back next week with somebody, I guess. ⁓ it won't be these two unfortunately, but I'll get ⁓ back on in one way or another. I'm sure Alex has more patience she can bring on. Anyway, thank you all for listening. Thank you all for being here. ⁓ and to everyone else out out there, excuse me, take care.