Episode 24: What The F*ck Just Happened with Rebecca Lazzelle

Small Batch Sound: And so it went, and then it was what you said, like I would do a lot better and then I would see family and then I would be shitty and then I would go and get invited to a baby shower and I'd be like, ugh, fuck. Or I filed the divorce paperwork and there was a checkbox that said, you pregnant? Do you have kids together? And I'm like, no, thank the universe. And then I'm going again, you know? Yeah, no, I'm happy and sad about it all at the same time. And so it was wrapped up in this really convoluted web. Isn't it crazy how a form can feel like a mean trick? Girl. Just a form. checkbox. An inanimate object that can just remind you of the life choices you either made or didn't get to make. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was really just convolutedly wrapped up. so I'm in a place now, and I was always, there was always a part of me that knew and understood and had gratitude. I thought gratitude, I didn't feel gratitude, if that makes sense. Because I knew it and then I was having these like panic attacks about not being able to be a grandparent, you know? And so it was very complicated. And when people said it, there was something about that, even though it didn't come from a place of judgment, it came from a place of gratitude and sympathy and empathy. Like it came from these good places. I couldn't hear that in the beginning. because everything is think honestly the word, the phrase at least just doesn't give good stuff on the other side. Maybe that's, mean, because usually it's said, like you said, fine intention. And I've talked a lot about this with everybody on the podcast. bit of condescension maybe? Yeah, or, you know, well at least. Like there's a little, I don't know. Minimizing. Patronizing, minimizing. yeah, yeah. And it doesn't have to be even. in that tone to feel it anyway. so I think there's think, my god, least you didn't have, you know, at least you didn't have peace with him, you know? It even was that a couple times, and I'm like, fuck you. Right. No, I think there's something just about that phrase that just is never really a good one. And that's not to say that it couldn't be given with good intentions and- And love, even. Yeah, exactly. But there's, I don't know, there's something about it that I can't, like, I'm trying to think of in this moment. What would be- taken well with, well, at least. I think... I don't know. No, I don't know. Nothing. I don't know because I mean, maybe it's not even the phrase. It's when the phrase is like, when you get to be the recipient of that phrase is in the aftermath of something really... Minimizes everything else that happens to sort of highlight this one thing that like you probably are consciously aware of, but it's just not working. Yeah. I think you're not in the right, the recipient of the well at least, fill in the blank, is not in a good mindset to begin with. ⁓ And then add on that the person who's giving the phrase is in a better place. Yes. Naturally. Whatever that looks Just by virtue of where you are and where this person is, that separation between my life just blew up in one way or another, or it's not what I thought it was going to be versus... Your life, I have no idea what else is going on in your world, but that phrase kind of puts a divider between the two of us. I think that may be it. Maybe not the actual words themselves. I don't know. I'm thinking about this in real time that you can't tell. Yeah, no. And it's like, knew it wasn't from a place of judgment. Yeah. But it was the same. I had the exact same thing happen when I told people what happened. And they would say, at least you're not in the hospital. The at least. The at least, yeah. Mm-hmm. At least you didn't have to go to the hospital. And it was like... And I talk about this in one of my online videos, which is about how to help people with grief. And it's like, don't come to a conclusion with that person before they come to that conclusion. And when they start saying, when I was actually saying, I'm so grateful that I didn't have a child with him from a calm place and not a place of trigger and all of this, that's when you can say, I know, at least you didn't have a kid with him. Yeah. But it's like you have to as the external party. And I think it's confusing. being confusing to myself, but also to the people around me where I'm saying, thank God, thank the universe. I didn't have a kid with him. And they're like, yeah, at least you didn't have a kid with him. And then I'm like, don't you say that. Yeah. know, it's like, what? And so, it was like this, wasn't all the way, I wasn't coming from a place of gratitude when I said that it was a place of logic. And so. When I actually got to the feeling and that space and that container of gratitude, I was able to then receive that information as people intended it. But prior to that, for nine, 10 months, it was a trigger every single time. Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard. You don't know. You don't know when you're going to trigger people. You meet someone and you're like, ⁓ yeah, I didn't have. And then you meet a stranger and you tell your story. And they're like, at least you didn't have kids with them. And you're like, I will give you grace because you don't know me right now, but you're like, get the fuck away from me. Right? Move along, move along, move And so was this really confusing situation because I was telling people they were responding in kind and then I was being triggered. it was like, it's just really, it's just really When you're going through something, this is just how it feels. It feels, it's confusing to you. Like I was thinking about today because I want to do an episode on perfectionism. ⁓ girl, yes, I have the perfect for you. And has nothing to do with fertility, like it does, but it doesn't. And so what I want to talk about it outside of fertility and the life that I led with that perfectionism going into life, going into relationships, going into what ultimately became fertility with somebody. then when my life blew apart, It, I didn't know what to do next. What do I do with all this? Stratenal. What do I do with, it's not, it had nothing to do with whether or not I still wanted to be married or in this relationship. It was just like, like all the stuff around me had fallen down. I'm just looking through rubble. I don't know what I want to do with this. Do I want to give it away? Do I want to put it back together? Do I want to incinerate it? Right. I mean, do I want to smash this particular ornament? Yes, actually. ⁓ That one? OK, you can do that one. You know, like I had things that I was clear, but the bigger stuff, the bigger life stuff, I didn't know what to do next because I didn't see it coming. I didn't plan for this. And I'm a planner. when I got to that point, Things that I had never ever contemplated being something I would even wrestle with, was. I had had confidence in my picking ability. All of a sudden, I don't have any confidence to pick the right person to talk to. Like literally to talk to, not date. Talk to, I don't believe anything I say anymore. I'm afraid of my shadow. Self-defying, girl. And I am afraid, because I just don't trust myself. How did I get in this mess? Well, it must be me. Yeah. And ⁓ the dog that's sitting right here, we're about to celebrate 10 years together, because I got him right after the divorce was final, because my dog died during my divorce. that's tough. It was awful. And so poor Ollie has seen me through all my iterations. Good and not so cute and Good and growing. Yep. Thank you. But anyway, it's when you're going through something that alters your life from the inside out, top to bottom, side to side. Like you're just not your best self. And I think that there is something to be said about, like, if you see somebody in the, in the hot potato realm of this, if you see somebody and they have had a diagnosis or have somebody in their life who they're close to has had a diagnosis, if they just had loss, if they're clearly experiencing some grief of some kind, whether that's literal loss or like the loss of what you thought. doesn't have to be an actual loss for it to like hit you the same way as, as, as like a death. If it feels like a death and, ⁓ in any way, shape or form, I would just say to anyone who's trying to give the, least, you know, the good, like see the good of this or whatever, do it at your own peril. Not because like it's not welcomed in one way, but you may trigger somebody because there might be something they didn't even see. that you said, yeah, and they may never, and that's okay too. And I'm not saying you're doing that at your own peril, get the hell away from everybody who's going through something difficult. No, they need somebody in their lives. know. Right, just know that it might not be, it might not be received in that one moment for whatever reason in the way that you were hoping, and that's okay. That doesn't mean that your relationship's done or that they hate you now. That Even if they act out. Right, they're going through it. They're going through it and the only way to get through it is to go through it. know? So, I hate that it was triggering for you during that time, but I also know like you pretending that it wasn't triggering for you would not have helped you get to where you are today. And I've learned very much that I'm a verbal processor and so I knew that, but I didn't do a good job like telling my friends and stuff. You know? And so I'm like, I'm processing and then they're commenting and I'm actually like, don't. Yeah, just let me do my thing. don't need you to listen, you know, like I don't need you to comment, you know, but had someone said I agree rather than at least You know, maybe it different. I don't know. I don't know. There's something really funky about that phrase. person from before so yeah. Yeah, you can't know you can't know and and the hot potato the hot potato segment is not meant and I say this every time it's not meant to shame someone or to say don't do that or you're No, no, no, no, no, just to provide perspective. Yeah, it's a real life exercise of like, that didn't really from the person offering it, that's my land very well. Now I feel weird. ⁓ the person receiving it. Yeah, that didn't land well. I don't feel any better. Thanks. You know, like it's a great opportunity to create conversation and openness and vulnerability around these situations where it is a little bit awkward. might not deal with it in the time, but to give that perspective of, you know, When we're well, when the receiver is well, they can understand the good intention and the sympathy and the empathy and the gratitude and the love and the kindness and all those things, but when they're not well, they can't. Right. Or they might not And you have to get through it one way or another. The person going through it has to find a way to keep moving forward. A wide berth is probably the best way to help them do that, but not exiting all completely. Like, let me know when you're better. Saying, hey. I don't know what you're going through. can't imagine it. how you can be there and what that looks like. And that may not be a conversation that evolves as well. Exactly. Yes, it is. well, okay, are we today? Are you still indifferent in that one way? I feel strongly about sort of this decision that like, will do it. I will have a kid. I will probably end up, if I'm alone, I'll probably end up adopting. ⁓ I'm looking for that, this baby was born 24 hours ago, like let's do it from the beginning kind of situation. But I also know that, especially like in Colorado, but that there are a lot of family, like children that get split from their siblings. So I'd be willing to adopt. siblings and I know that that can change the game sometimes for those kids and not be split from their siblings. I'm not sure about cousins that were in that situation. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, you have to think about your capacity too. But I'm like, feel strongly about adopting. I feel strongly about two. I do not currently feel strongly about IVF on my own by myself. But also like maybe that changes if I get with someone who's like, really want my own kids too. And then I'm like, all right, cool. But I'm not going to like... still like, I don't know, I don't know. I'm not saying I'm not gonna do IVF. That's great. I think you should- gonna do IUI. It's like, I might, if it comes around to it and that's the right thing and it feels good, but I am going to make sure that I take that time to feel how I feel about it and not just get wrapped up in like, this is the next thing, this is the next step because that's how I was before and now I wanna be like, do I actually want that? Right. IVF is hard. IVF is so expensive and so time consuming. It's not something you can really just do. Yeah, right. You gotta plan. You gotta plan for it. Exactly. Yeah. That's a good barrier to entry if you're not 100 % ready. Exactly. You need to be 100 % ready. Just like you need to be 100 % ready, whatever ready means. Lowercase r. Yeah. To become a parent and take it on. You need to be ready to take it on. And as an adoptive... or otherwise, but I like where you are for you. I know we just met today, but I like where you are because I feel like you're just, like you can take care of yourself, make decisions not based on an outcome, or how the outcome gets executed. I'm open to all the paths. Right, you can make decisions based on is this the person I wanna be with to do this or? is this the person I don't wanna be with at all? And it has nothing to do with your age or, you know, it's just not so rigid. It feels a lot more like it can be aligned with the right circumstances and everything. And that just feels like a nice place to land right now after all you've been through. I know. I feel like, honestly, very proud of myself. feel like I made my own decision. You know, I'm like, I... my whole life, this journey around what it meant to have kids and what it was going to look like was all felt very externally motivated. And now I feel like this is really my decision. And so it feels really good. And there's a lot of like peace that I feel internally because of that. And it's also strong. So if I get someone who's coming in, who's like wants something really strongly that doesn't align with that, feel very good being like, no, thank you. Yeah, this is what I want and you can't change my mind and I'm not gonna change my mind. And so I feel I'm really excited about that because I think it's so important for us to be aligned with our own choices and when there's a lot of external motivation and we can't really sift through the information to know so that we know what we feel and what we want. ⁓ It just doesn't feel as good. No, no, and like you said, coming from a place of strength as opposed to weakness or like, well, I'm getting older so therefore I must let go of all these other things in pursuit to be accepted or to get one thing that I want, I gotta get rid of five things that I used to want. That's a place of weakness and like, you're trying to shape shift and you don't wanna be in a place of a shape shifter because that's not you. You need to be fully yourself. You need to come as you are and someone either accept you for that or not. Because if I've learned anything from, if I learned anything from, you know, relationships that ended well or not well, it's that you're gonna stay you. If you wanna become more of yourself, the person you're with needs to like that you're becoming more yourself versus wanting to keep you like that other person they sort of met. and didn't really know, you know? So showing up as who you are, I think there's something to be said about, I will say, okay, I'll start that part over because it was a little convoluted. Now I know what I want to say. I think there's something to be said about being older in general. I knew myself a lot more post-divorce at, I think I got married to Marcus at 33. I knew myself at 33 a lot more than I knew myself in my 20s. And that's just how it works. That's how life works. But I feel like, okay, yeah, I had to start my life over at 31. And that was hard. And I don't wish that upon anyone else. What I do love is that I came, I think, more of fully formed human, a little bit more fully formed. Yeah, it came into this second marriage, and that would remain today. So I think I showed who I was to the right person who accepted me right then and there as that person. And luckily, it's worked out with us. We have been able to grow together. But I think when I first started out, I was so confused for a number of reasons, but I was so confused to who I was that I was kind of learning it in real time. And I think like for you, if, I'm 40 as well, so I'm thinking of myself now as 40, for you, even that much more has been able to be fully formed. And I think that's great because whoever, if ever, cause you can't, we can't know. Right, do meet somebody. Yeah, one of the two. If it happens again, you're even that much more aware. And that's a lot easier and a lot clearer to show up in someone's life, like take it or leave it and not in an asshole way. But like in like literally, if you want this, I can bring this. This is what I have. ⁓ If you're thinking that I'm something I'm not, I can go ahead and tell you I can't bring that. know, like, do I want to buy this from the store or not buy this from the store? It is that simple. And if it's a yes, let it be a hell yes and let's move forward and then we'll go into the next part. Which leads me to the last thing. I feel like a lot of your life was. with this transparent nature, not transparent like I'm telling you how I really feel, but like a transparency like in school when we were little, like an overlay of the children part of things. Like you thought about it well before you thought about a partner when you were a kid, when you were playing, playing house and playing mom. And then you thought about it with this first husband and then you... didn't want to do it. it's like, it's kind of been like the overlay throughout your entire life. You thought, it sounds like you thought about it more post-divorce than any other part of the relationship. At least what you told me. And then, so now it's like, it's not necessarily in the forefront as much. It's like, it's kind of taken a back seat in a very healthy way to where it's not the first thing that's coming up for you. You're letting the other parts of your life come to you. And if it works out, or however it works out, that's the avenue that you're going to become a mother. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, yay. I'm glad I got that. Yes. Yes. That feels really good. I much agree. It was sort of always like a thing. Yeah. Yeah. And now it's is interesting that it was a thing. It's interesting to me that it was such a thing early on and that you've arrived here. But I think that's also like that shows growth, true growth. And also acceptance, which I think we all need more of. So, hallelujah. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. I know a lot of that's probably painful to bring back up. You know, thinking about things that are less than savory are never fun to talk about, but they're always really nice to get out of your system. Especially when you know that somebody else is probably like, yeah, I've gone through that as well. ⁓ out there listening to Rebecca's story and you want to talk to her more about it. First of all, we'll put her book in the show notes. Congratulations on that. That's hard thing to do. a memoir. Good for you. And then I'll put her information. So if you want to get in touch with her, talk to her about anything. Obviously, you know, all my information will be in there. If you heard this episode and you know it would resonate with someone else in your life, please share it with them. The only way we get out of this feeling like it's only me. because this is a different episode altogether from everything else I've done. You were very right. This is different. And it will hit differently for different people for different reasons. And so if you know that this could be helpful to someone in your life, please share it. And everyone else, I will be back next week with another guest or maybe not. I don't know. I will be back next week. That's for sure. I hope you have a good rest of your week if you're listening or watching. And until then, take care. Okay, stay on here for a second.