Episode 16: Risky Business: Colleagues In IVF with Ashley Ernst

Small Batch Sound: Hey everyone and welcome back to Confessions of a Slow Cooker. I'm Ashlyn Blue, and I am pleased to introduce my guests for today's episode. Ashley Ernst and I are former colleagues here in the Aspen Valley. We're also friends, but ⁓ we happen to be working together during a very pivotal time in both our fertility journeys, and we'll talk about it. But let's just say going through IBF alongside someone else you work with on a daily basis can get Sticky. ⁓ you're doing all the same steps, but the direct comparison, whether it's how many eggs you got retrieved, how many embryos you'll be able to transfer, the bumps you might face or don't face, ⁓ it can unfortunately and unintentionally put pressure on your experience. And you already have a lot to do during this whole process. Our stories ultimately ended happily with two boys between us, one year apart. But that's the thing, most people don't know. that if you looked at us today, you just think we have two sons. ⁓ so we wanted to share how that felt for us both to go through it somewhat together and apart. So Ashley, hi, thank you for coming. Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, me too. Me too. ⁓ where would you like to start? I guess I will just start at the beginning of my sort of story. ⁓ of becoming a mom. And I'm gonna try very hard not to cry. I told I told you the other day I like still have PTSD. So it's okay. That's okay. There we go. I don't know. I think I would start by saying growing up in the Midwest, I I think I always thought I would be a mother and the oldest of four. I can't say that throughout my whole childhood or even young adulthood that I knew for sure I wanted to be a mom. But I think it was always something that I just assumed would eventually happen. and mine started way before IVF, which, you know, I I didn't get married till I was forty one years old. I didn't start dating, who is now my husband, till I was thirty. six years old. And so it started probably when I was thirty, when all my friends were getting married or already married and starting to have children. And sort of just wondering, is it when's it gonna be my turn? Like right. Am I gonna find someone? Am I gonna be a mom? All that. And I think I went through a period of time in my thirties where I thought I wasn't finding the right person. And I thought, well Maybe motherhood isn't for everyone. Maybe motherhood is just for some people. And ⁓ maybe I'm just gonna be the fun aunt that, you know, never becomes a mom but has my own kids, like like the way Oprah is, you know? She's got a ton of kids, but none of her own. This is a market, by the way. Yeah, I kinda Yeah, I just mentally got to the place where I was like, Okay, that's a great life too, because I can travel and I can be selfish and and I can give myself to my siblings' kids and my friends' kids and whatever. And then I started dating my husband and pretty quickly I told him because we were in very different places in life, he had just gone through a divorce. I said, you know, I don't know if we should date because I wanna get married and have kids. And I'm 36 years old. And to my surprise, because I had nothing to lose at that point, and he said, Well, okay, I'm open to all that. And so basically, a couple years into dating, I can't say we started trying, but we weren't not trying. Right. ⁓ you know, there was no protection happening. So I think for Three or four years went by that way and we debated IVF. I had known friends who've gone through IVF and heard of other people who had gone through IVF and stuff. So Molly. Molly Who was on the show. Yeah. Her episode will be out before this anyway. So yeah. Yeah. So Molly Dodge and a f and a few others just in Aspen who I know had gone through it. ⁓ but at that time we were planning our wedding, so I thought, well, if I'm gonna go that I sh I might as well just wait till the wedding's over. So we got married when I was forty one and ⁓ pretty quickly after the wedding, because it had been three or four years without getting pregnant, ⁓ and I was forty one, I knew I didn't have a whole lot of time. If I even still had time. Right. ⁓ so we started IVF pretty quickly And you and I were going through it together. It started off wonderfully and then it became quite the challenging journey. Yeah. yeah. And it ended up, thankfully, with my now one year old son Oliver. Who is so cute. ⁓ so the way that you know okay, so I've told everyone here, ⁓ probably many times at this point. I don't really remember, but I've been open about like we started l so I started working with you right after you got engaged. So I was around you during tw 2022 and that's when Marcus and I were trying to start our IBF. We were trying to get going, ⁓ a year ahead. ⁓ not to be ahead, but just like that we were ready then. And we had to wait until twenty twenty three because of stuff that was going on in his body and we could not get his count to get back up. to to be cleared to even do the we had done the workup, we could we weren't cleared to do the egg retrieval. And by the time you get got started, I remember, and this is where this is where the reason I even it even matters to me to bring it up is like if you are going with through it with someone else, these little bitty dates are everything. So all I wanted for that whole year was to be told, okay, we're good to go. Let's get started. I want a calendar. Like or here's your calendar rather. And I remember you got your calendar before I got my calendar in in ⁓ twenty twenty three. And I was so excited for you. I think I even came over ⁓ because I wanted to know all about it. Like, well, what are you doing? And I think I was there when your meds arrived because you we had to, you know, they would get sent back. Otherwise you had to sign for them. And so I followed you. I wasn't jealous. I was like, I was jealous is like has like a negative connotation. But I was like I really want you know, I'm I and I knew it was it was just a matter of time. I was just waiting on a couple of things to ⁓ be done, like my pap smear to be cleared and whatever. ⁓ so y I got to kind of watch you get the meds and we like open them and like see what it looks like. We were both I think you got your egg retrieval like two weeks before me, something of that nature. So you were able to tell me how it was down in Denver, what was going on, you were able to tell me how many eggs you got. How many was it? I think I did it in eight. April of twenty three? March or April of twenty three. I think March, 'cause that mine was April seventh. I because I looked back on the calendar. So how many eggs did you end up getting? Twenty-nine. Yeah. And I got seventeen. And I remember being like, Okay, cool. Yeah. So my my journey started so great. Like I Yeah, you know, at forty one, you don't, you know, everybody tells you you're too old and It's not gonna work and you've probably been shriveling up for at least si six years and whatever. So but I'm playing our funerals already. Yeah. ⁓ I guess I got lucky and I had never really done I don't know, any of the research, but I got twenty nine eggs. We immediately had them ⁓ combine with his sperm and we had I think it was fifteen combine. And then you wait the seven days or six days and we got eight. Yeah. So like at forty one I was beyond thrilled. ⁓ and then we did the embryo testing and we ended up with three. So I was a little bit disappointed or sad, but at the same time because we only ended up with three, but at the same time I was like, Well, I certainly don't want three children. And at this age We were at Betsy's house when you got that call. I remember you going to her office and coming back and saying three and I was like, That sounds great. Like I would be delighted to have three. But I didn't have mine yet, so I didn't know. Like yeah. I just remember that. Yeah, and then I learned that, you know, at age forty above forty or forty to forty three or something like that, it that's right on average is like thirty percent of them tend to work out. ⁓ ab over the age of forty. So we had three embryos. Iceland trip. After this? We were dealing with a lot of family stuff because my husband's brother had passed away. Yeah. So it is all a big blur. Kind of a jumbo. Okay. Yeah. I I I remember I left, you know, the the funeral ⁓ in Arlington, Virginia to make to beat my med's home for the retrieval. ⁓ and then we had to go back for something. And I we literally Because he was a Navy SEAL, so there were a lot of components, yeah. ⁓ so we we I had my retrieval one day and I got on a plane the next day, which was completely crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Retrieval or a transfer? Retrieval. Retrieval. Okay. Just making sure that I have the timing right. Do you remember your your stomach blows up huge and your ovaries are so big and You're so uncomfortable. Like I think I gained seven pounds in like the four days before retrieval just because everything's overstimulated and giant. And, you know, they suggest staying in bed for a little while after that. And I was like wheeling my carry on luggage through the airport, like stopping to bend over and like crampings. Just but I had to go 'cause it was Yeah. Life for an important reason. Yeah. Right, right. I feel like if I recall After your retrieval, in between that, ⁓ during the testing, maybe after the testing, I feel like you were because you are a traveler. And I'm not nearly as much of a traveler as you, especially as of late, just because I get weird amounts of anxiety. Not about like the traveling, but just I hate it. It's so annoying. But you love to travel and I feel like you ⁓ I feel like you were like, I'm gonna go on a trip. We're gonna go on a trip before because it was also off season. And ⁓ I people don't if you don't live in a valley in a a mountain valley like we do, it does that doesn't make sense. ⁓ I learned quickly that there are two sides of the the year in ⁓ a resort town on seasons, winter and summer, and then you have a couple ⁓ like a month and a half in between on either side where people are just out. And it just so happened we had our ⁓ retrievals around that same time when it was going to be a good downtime, which is probably good for us in terms of doing the rental real estate in an a resort town. But I remember you saying, we're gonna go on a trip. And may I don't know if you actually did. I just remember thinking, how can you go on a trip right now? And you know, like that was that would stress me out more. But but I I admired that about you that you're like, let's just like before we come back and do this transfer thing, let's just do one more hurrah kind of deal. And ⁓ anyway, I just things you remember. Random. I know. Well, and truly what part of traveling that I love is going to the beach and it's like my Zen place. So I'm sure we went to the beach somewhere for a week or two and just like disconnected from work, disconnected from the thought of IVF and the pressure of a transfer and all that. And so we came back refreshed after work and ⁓ you know what? It was our honeymoon and we went to Italy. We went to Italy. There was a lot going on. Like I said, it was actually not a great trip. It rained the whole time. It was back when Italy flooded like worst flooding ever. Whatever. That's why I don't remember it. It was the worst trip he and I ever have been on. Still to this day. It was our honeymoon. That's all right. It didn't it didn't tank the marriage, so that's good. So when you came home, since you did that trip and whatever, I think since we were you know, you were a couple weeks before. For me in terms of all the events in the IVF. And then that trip, ⁓ I think it plot probably also the stuff with your brother-in-law and all the all the events that surrounding that. I think that pushed your transfer table timetable off a little bit. So now I'm in front in terms of who's going first. And so I have my re my first transfer attempt in June. ⁓ it does not work. I remember you know, calling you, telling you about it. ⁓ and then you were up next, I feel like July. Yeah. I we were like just back and forth. And on my trip, I started medication right after I got home and my first set of medication, I had messed up the medications and they forgot to prescribe me something. So long story short, I had done Two weeks or a week of medication and then that got canceled. Then you were on your medication, you had your transfer, it didn't work. Then I was able to start medication again. And then I did my transfer in July and it didn't work. My first one. ⁓ did that surprise you that it didn't work? Shocked. I mean Yeah. Shocked. I mean, I think in general. The whole journey was sort of shocking to me because I think what little I knew of IVF was like, if you're not getting pregnant and you want to get pregnant, just go do IDVF and it'll it'll happen. Right. 'Cause we only hear usually about the ones that actually do work. Right. And so I just thought, okay, great. I'm st I'm I'm starting in February or March. I think we went originally in January for our first consult, and I was like, I'll be pregnant by June. Like it'll be three months, you know, like one cycle for retrieval, one cycle maybe to recover, one cycle to transfer, and then I'll be pregnant. And that's something that I I wish I had mentally prepared for better. That almost everyone that I've spoken to, the journey has been longer than they thought, slower than they thought. more complicated than they thought. And of all my friends and colleagues and even strangers that I know that have gone through it, like almost none of us have the same setbacks or bumps or issues. Like every single one of them is completely different. I think ⁓ I remember some I went over somewhere it was it was While we were it was before we actually got started. So I hadn't gone through the process, or maybe I had gone through a little bit of it. Anyway, I wasn't pregnant. There that's the main thing. And I went over and hung out with some of my cousins in Nashville ⁓ one night. And they are very educated women, like super, super smart. They all have three kids of their own. We're all very close in age. They're the kind of people that I would be like, I am late. to everything. I'm late to getting married to the, you know, the person I am supposed to be married to, I am late. So I'd always feel a little other around them, not because they made me feel that way, but I just felt like, ⁓ so they were asking questions about IBF because I think we were just trying to get started and and their perception of it ⁓ was that basically it was the equatribuble and then you're pregnant. Like that's the step. Like and no and I was like, ⁓ no, there's a lot more to this. ⁓ and I started to ⁓ I I'm not I don't think their eyes were glazing over, but they were like, What? Like it just it's not commonly known how much goes into it because yeah, you feel like it's a medical assist. Like there's a s there's we're gonna take over your body, great. ⁓ but there your body has to play a huge part in it. And we both you and I in our first transfer failures, that exposed ⁓ I I think I are I I too was shocked during the whole process because You're just waiting for your numbers and you're waiting for your your stuff and knowing other people's numbers, it's easy to get into that like, what's wrong with my body? If I could if I only got seventeen and I'm not even forty yet, what's wrong? What like I was thinking about you and Molly. ⁓ and it's just easy to get into that slippery spot. And then when you do have a failure, it's almost I feel like it was like I just slipped down. Like there was i it was a it was an iceberg and I went straight down into the ice cold ocean and ⁓ I was afraid to do it again. Yeah. Yeah, and I think y it's hard not to compare, but it it's also kind of the only way you learn how it goes is by asking someone else who's already done it. And then when their experience is completely different, which every time it seems to be like, ⁓ well, I mean, we haven't gotten to this yet, but then I ha eventually had a lining issue and and no one that I had ever spoken to about IVF have ever had a lining issue, so no one knew how to deal with that. ⁓ And you didn't have any lining issues during the retrieval, right? No. I had no lining issues during the retrieval and each time I did a ram and medication it got worse. Right. Which I that was so stressful just being around you. Not like you gave me stress, but like I didn't have an answer and I didn't have that issue. I did have a progesterone issue ⁓ that we found out, but not the lining. And okay, so let's get back to first transfer did not take. How long did you Wait, what did your doctor say? You're still with C C R ⁓ at this point, right? Yes. I was still with C C R ⁓ You know, the doctor says this is normal a lot of times. We did not have the same doctor, just FYI. Because we talked about Molly and I did have the same doctor. We talked about her in our episode. So I just want make that clear. Yeah. ⁓ you know, he he mine was a man and he pretty much just said, you know, this happens and you're older and It do every time we do a cycle we learn more about your body. And so we're just gonna put you on a different set of drugs and a different ⁓ program and we'll see if that works. And so I did another round, probably a month or two, like pretty quickly after. Yeah. ⁓ I did another round and this is when the lining issue started because at this point I had done some drugs But then we canceled my transfer because I was taking the wrong drugs at the wrong time. Then I did a full round of drugs and had the transfer that didn't work. So now this is my third round of drugs. And this is when they came to me and said, I did probably the two weeks of of the drugs and ⁓ they called me after measuring my lining and said, Like, really, we need your lining to be at a seven. I think I was at a six. They said it has worked before. but really we want your lining to be eight milliliters, seven, we'll still move forward. Anything below seven, we'll still do it, but it's your choice. So at this point, I was down to two embryos, and I think my lining got to six and a half. And I s they said, Well we'll do it if you want us to. It's your decision. And I said, I don't want to do it. I don't want to waste another embryo. Yeah. At that point I knew I only had two more and I was I think I probably had just turned forty two. So I decided not to do it. Yeah. Pretty quickly we did another one round and at that time my lining got to like five and a half. So it was just getting thinner. And thinner and thinner. And the doctor didn't ha really seem to be paying too much attention. He just kept saying, Well, we'll just do a different kind of drugs. We'll just do a different regimen, a different, you know, your body's just not responding well to these. Right. And basically it took me starting researching about lining and what makes it thinner and what, you know. I found a podcast which I don't even remember what it was called, but I like I went on the podcast app and just Googled Yeah IVF uterine lining and something came up. It's something's out there. And the woman it's a woman who does like consultations, I guess. Mm-hmm. And she suggested, she said, You need to figure out if you've always had a lining issue. Or if this is a new lining issue. So I went back into all of my uterine measurements because in the CCRM app you can go back to every single one. I went all the way back to the retrieval one ones and back then I was at nine. And then the first round I got to like eight. And then the canceled transfer I was at seven. And then the care step. Yes. And I so I was as I was doing this, I was watching it just via the results get thinner and thinner and I didn't I'm I brought it up to my doctor and I didn't feel like he took it seriously. When your lining is ki like your progesterone, like this is the whole game of the transfer. You need it to stick like that's how it sticks. So I And that surprises me. Not done IVF. Like I never knew your lining has to be a certain number of millimeters to implant an egg. Like these are things nobody teaches you. And it took you know, a failed transfer and a at least one or two canceled transfers to you know, for me to go down the rabbit hole to figure it out for myself. Right. ⁓ so all in all I'm personally glad you're talking about it here so that you could actually be that person for somebody else to say, ooh, this is what you can do. And I would say too, like, it's unfortunate, but d doctors and nurses are human beings and they also make mistakes, just like us. So there were times where some of my what you know, what they said my lining was and what they wrote down were different. One time They told me it was a six, and then I looked at the report and it said sixteen and they called me and they said, Okay, go ahead, do the trigger shot. You're at a sixteen. And I said, That's impossible. I was at five yesterday. Right. And so then they I said, please go back and take a look. And they said, ⁓ yeah, there shouldn't have been a one before the six. It's it's set six. It's not at sixteen. Don't get the shot. We're not gonna do the transfer. We're actually gonna cancel the transfer. So I had four canceled transfers. So two weeks of drugs and then canceled transfers, which you still have to pay for it. You still pay for the medication. You're still putting drugs into your body for two weeks and then Which will have to Yeah. Come. Yep. So roller coasters. After the fourth one I was deep into the ocean with you. Sad and just felt like, ⁓ my god, this is I'm gonna be the first person on the planet this isn't gonna work for. ⁓ and I just decided to take a break and reevaluate and do something else, basically, I guess. ⁓ I think I thought I'd take a one or two month break, but I ended up ⁓ waiting a month or two and then calling a different ⁓ clinic. Right. and after my first phone call with the doctor at the different clinic, I just felt like before giving up completely I should I should give someone else a chance. I think I had decided I was done with my current doctor at C C R ⁓ and ⁓ did the research and they're your embryos, so you turns out you can transfer them to a different Well that's good to know. Yeah. It's not as scary and hard as it seems. It's It costs some money, but there are carriers and it it's it was a very dialed in situation. So I transferred my frozen embryos to a different clinic. And that was ⁓ for anyone in the Denver area, that was Conceptions, right? Yes. I have a couple of friends I know who went there. Doctor O'Shaughnessy. ⁓ they call her Doctor O. She was awesome. Okay. And They offered some testing that C C R ⁓ didn't offer. Okay. This was the other thing that was frustrating. There was n there was no signs other than my lining getting thinner that there was like there was no reason that it wasn't working or like it shouldn't have worked. And so I don't know. I just I transferred my embryos to her. I did the extra testing, which took another cycle. and same as all the other results. Like we didn't find anything. Everything's normal. Your receptivity is normal. Your Alice and Emma tests came back normal. Like everything What are those? The I don't know exactly but basically Did you say Alice and Emma? Like like people? Okay. Yeah. ⁓ they tested my she said it they test two things. Your receptivity so ⁓ for conceptions it helps them decide if they're gonna transfer like on day fourteen, fifteen, or sixteen, I think. They kinda have a very different program than C C R where they it's kind of either one of those three days. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ and then I believe the Alice and Emma test test your uterine biome. So like if you have too much bacteria, it could attack the embryo or not enough, then, you know, I don't know, I can't grow or whatever. So I did these two tests, which was another cycle of drugs with no transfer. But ⁓ I thought, well, I got to a point where I just felt like more information the better because I only have two left. And I will say my husband and I when we decided to do this, made a an agreement that we would give it one shot. Okay. Meaning one full like I'm only doing one retrieval. Transfer it. Like then actually take place. Yeah. Right. Like since I ended up with three embryos, then I could have done, you know, I would have tried each one of them. but I was not gonna go back for a second retrieval. Got it, got it, got it. Okay. Now I understand what you're saying. Yeah. And this this whole thing that makes me think of like this whole process when you're going through this and I'm not saying you as in the universal you, but like when you're going through this, this is a new marriage too. ⁓ yeah. Like And we had just lost been together. Right. He is grieving. Yeah, this yes. and let's just add, I'm pregnant. Yes, then you got pregnant. So which Talk I mean you and I talked about this yesterday because we were just going over what we were gonna talk about, but like I I can only I can't imagine how it feels to be pregnant or not no, no. I can't imagine t how it feels to be not pregnant when someone close to you is pregnant because my sister did it three times before I actually got pregnant. And she also got pregnant and had two miscarriages before I got pregnant. So she had had five pregnancies. And I didn't know if I could. I never had a positive test. And so with When I got pregnant I remember not really wanting and I I was so hopeful that you were like right around the corner. Like you were just so close and and then we can just be great and happy and and and like I remember you being so positive. You're like you're next. I'm pregnant and I don't want to make you sad, but you're right behind me. You were like such a good show. You were. ⁓ You were like you were like giving me free advice of like, okay, when you're pregnant, this and I was like, what if it never happens for me? And I wonder, what c was there something I could have done that would have been better or like more sensitive? Like I was I was trying to be all those things, but all I could feel was I'm just getting fatter and fatter and it's more obvious and I can't ⁓ I I but I really tried so hard, like during any of our meetings or any of our walkthroughs that we did together, I would like not be like throwing my ⁓ I'm feeling this pregnant you know, like no groaning aloud, you know, no like this I feel like I'm sick or any of No complaining. I just tried to pretend like I wasn't a boat. No, I think look, we all have emotions around Being a mom and getting pregnant, whether it's not being able to, or getting pregnant when you're before you're ready, or I I think that all of us have feelings that some of us don't even understand until we're going through them. And even when we're going through them, we're still like, what is happening? And I think that just in general as women, understanding that you don't know what someone el else is going through while you're going through Whatever it is that you're going through. So ⁓ but like you had been doing it for two years at that point, and you deserve to be happy and enjoying it and loving it and and also hating it. Like you have you should have that right. ⁓ But I think just the fact that you kept it in your conscience that on a daily basis, the bigger you were getting, the more pregnant you were feeling. whether that was a happy feeling or a sad feeling, because you have both of those when you're pregnant. Yeah. that there was someone that you were seeing every single day that was also having emotions about not being pregnant and not getting pregnant and it not working. And I think that I learned, you know, I I never really like I said, I was forty two when I was when I f I I I was forty two when I finally got pregnant, I think. ⁓ I don't know. I just I think that if we all sort of held in held some space for we don't know what people are going through at any given time. ⁓ but it really relates big time to pregnancy and motherhood. ⁓ you know, I've even heard of people like which ⁓ thankfully I haven't had this yet, but like on Mother's Day for the people who've lost their mothers or like, you know, all all of that. We all just have such big emotions about motherhood and pregnancy and Whether you what what like I said, whether you're you got pregnant when you didn't want to get pregnant and how you deal with that, whether you're trying to get pregnant and you can't, and how you deal with that. And we're all, you know, from And then when you actually just are, if you are pregnant. Like there's a lot going on during that. Right. Not to mention the postpartum. Woof. Right. Right. Yeah. So I think as long as everybody who you you I think you did it as as best you could as you You enjoyed what you were going through and Had the true feelings of what you were going through, knowing that I was going through s something you had already been through. So you were trying to be super sensitive to that. I was. and this is not a pat on the back. I told you this yesterday, so it won't be a surprise to you. But I ended up not doing ⁓ a shower in the valley. ⁓ because I think for multiple reasons, ⁓ There was enough going on and I figured it's where we have it, all the things that like g like I just I just was like, why don't we just do one? And it just worked out nicely because I thought I don't want I work with you every day already. I don't wanna be ⁓ like Pam Beasley on the office, like quietly planning my wedding, you know, so so that Jim does it hear, you know, and it was just like That just made more sense to me. It was not something I announced and said, I'm not having one here and this is why you know. But but that was one thing I thought, if if there's anything I can do, we had a lot of people I remember you ⁓ getting I mean, I I remember people being pregnant during this time or like while we were working together before all this nonsense happened to both of us. And ⁓ I didn't want to be one of those people that ha that had invited you to a shower and I didn't do it To announce it. I w actually was never going to tell you ⁓ that. But now that we're talking about fertility, I'm like, you know As we say that someone couldn't so nice of you and you s you should have had if you wanted one here, you absolutely should have had one here. And I said this to you yesterday too. I replied no to a lot of baby showers. Just not because I had something else planned, not because I was gonna be out of town, because to keep myself emotionally stable, I I had to stop going to baby showers. And I did. And I would tell my friends. Yeah. I would say, you know, I'm sorry, I can't be there. Just what I'm going through right now. Like I am here for you, but I can't I can't come to the baby shower. So I think that's something that like when I had my baby shower, there was a friend of mine who was going through and still not successful. And I Texted her outside of the invitation and said, Please no, I know what you're going through. And if you choose, she had replied, Yes, she's coming. But I knew what she was going through. And I said, if you choose on the day of to not show up, I will understand. Yeah. And I think And and not take it personally. Yeah. I I know what you're going through. And if you wake up that day and the thought of celebrating someone else being pregnant makes you cry, don't come. It's okay. I know you love me. I know you will be there for me if I need you. But why put yourself through that? For someone who's and and this is not to ⁓ this is not to denigrate someone who doesn't have any issues ⁓ getting pregnant. But when you don't have issues getting pregnant and you get pregnant exactly like you were thinking, which believe it or not, Ashley, some people just do. Which is crazy. I'm like to me that sounds like a like a a miracle upon miracles. And I grew up thinking that's how it went. Now I kind of have this idea that it's like not possible for for anyone. And then when I do find that unicorn, I'm like, what? But what's that like? What do you? Yeah. How is that for you? and so this is not to say that people who didn't struggle to get pregnant and wanted to be pregnant have no ⁓ knowledge of this. But if you haven't struggled and if you haven't had something like an IBF or an IUI or what have you. Just if you are in like the throes of excitement for your ch for your shower and this is everything you've ever dreamed and it's just magical and like I said it's unicorn y. Like just be aware ⁓ that a lot of people do not talk about their fertility struggles ⁓ until after the fact. Once they're on the other side of it. A lot of people and that's not a negative thing, but But it is a lonely thing. And so if you are all sparkles and cupcakes about yours and someone looks like they have sort of checked out of the conversation, please know that it probably has nothing to do with you. It has a lot to do with what's under the proverbial hood and they may or may not want to talk about it yet. They may or may not want to talk to you about it yet because you know you're in the spot they want to be. But I think if I were in that position and somebody asked me or called me and said, Hey, I know, like, so I don't know what's going on, but I feel like something is up and I really I want to give you an out. I think that is the most generous way to let somebody off the hook there. ⁓ so if you are or you're pre if you are a perceptive person and you notice that somebody is kind of ⁓ backing away from you a little bit or backing away from everybody not going to things. ⁓ that may be your cue to understand, either give them space, ⁓ you know your you know your people better than I I do. So I'm not telling you exactly what you should do, but just know that that's a possibility. That may be something that they're going through. And again, it's probably not about you or against you if they withdraw a little bit. ⁓ and I think that's how I reacted for a really long time was Yeah, you know, to protect myself and to protect my feelings and my emotions. I would just kind of withdraw a little bit from the friend that is pregnant or the baby shower or, you know, not hang out with my friends with babies for a little while just to sort of be able to survive the the the feelings and the emotions of not having it work. Yeah. I remember feeling angry a lot of the times when I would be around people who were with their children. I wasn't angry at them. I wasn't angry. Just grumpy. Yeah. Just like 'Cause I I wanted to be a mom my entire life. Like I envisioned it. I knew I'd be good at it. Like there are very few things I'm like, I'm really good at this. ⁓ being a mom, I'm actually very good at this. ⁓ 'cause I've wanted 'cause I I I've always known it's it's what I'm meant to be and who I'm meant to be. And ⁓ I'm thankful that it's this. You know, I would love to be good at math like you, but ⁓ better to be a good mom than good at math. ⁓ way better. Way better. But Yeah, I just remember it gave me just a lot of a lot of feelings and they usually I would turn them on myself and I would say, like, what the hell is wrong with you that you can't get out of this funk? Like, be happy for somebody else. The thing was I was happy for them, but I took it as a like a a ⁓ something was ⁓ like a a defect in me that I couldn't have two emotions at the same time. and ⁓ always the angry one is the one that hurts the most. So it's the one I'm focusing on the most. Right. And so it was just and when you when you compound all this, like remember, you're going through regular life during all this time. We still are going to work. We're still dealing with all the things that happen in real estate and aspen in the rental space, the guests, the properties, whatever. And just doing all of this as you are going through it. It just compounds the whole thing because you have to be in society. You can't withdraw entirely. ⁓ and so when you do a withdrawal, I feel like it just feels heavier. Am I right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think that you just start to feel yeah. I think for me I I I when I started, I was so excited about it. And like I said, I thought it was gonna work right away, so I told everybody about it. And then it felt like it became the only thing everyone asked about and the only thing everybody wanted to know about, which I felt made me feel great and supported, but it then it wasn't going well. So then I changed my mind and I was like, I don't want to talk about this anymore. Like this is all I ever talk about. And it's so sad. So then I went to this like, okay, I don't want to talk about it and I would tell my friends that or my family, like, I will tell you when there's something to tell you. Right. But I don't want to talk about it every time because it just makes me sad. I'm not it's not working. and yeah, then I think that's that was a really I feel like that's a really good thing too. Like you have the option to share your information when and how, and you have the option to change that midway through. And and I think that's not I don't wanna say your s your responsibility, but like I think you should do that. If you are deciding that you wanna change the flow of information. ⁓ I think at some point in my my thing, like ⁓ I'd have a lot of people be like, I didn't want to ask, you know, and I was like, I totally forgot to tell you, honestly, because I forgot who I told things and when I told stuff and as more news comes in, you get more news and more news and more news and then bad news and then whatever. And so I I I think I kept like a text list that I kept on being like, Did I tell her this? Did I tell her this? And ⁓ it got that got ⁓ not annoying on the part of them wanting to know, but it was an extra burden on the on top of everything else when you've got so much else in your head. So yeah, I like that you told me that back then. Yeah, when you have bad news to repeat it ten times over, twenty times over, fifteen times over, it just makes it worse and worse and worse and just make you know. So yeah, I switched. I went from telling my you know, all my friends and all my family out every step of the way to okay, I just need a little bit of space and privacy for myself. I wasn't trying to hide anything. I was just trying to manage my own Yeah disappointment and like you said, anger and frustration and yeah. Moving on to when you finally were you you passed, I remember you calling me and being like, we actually scheduled it. And w do you remember what what how long it had been from the first transfer to the second transfer? When you actually did the second transfer? Well, my first transfer was July. Right. My second transfer was September the next year. Jeez. Well that would track because Oliver and Archer are like a year apart. Yeah. Yeah. Because mine my second transfer was in August, late August. So yeah. And you got pregnant out. And a whole entire year later, I got pregnant. So in between you getting pregnant, I had the three cancel cycles. Then I took a break, which I thought would be a month or two. Then I decided to have a call with conceptions. Then I decided to transfer my embryos, which took a couple weeks. Then we scheduled the testing. And the first time that I could after the testing, after I got a cycle, the first time I could have done a transfer after that was August. So it would have been a year and a month later. And of course, it was the first time that we had planned a trip with Greg's brother's children, his brother who had passed away. we were taking them to Florida to 30 A. And it was gonna be during that time. So I s you know, I I will say I think the best decision I ever made was to take a break. My I I just my body figured out, it went back to its normal self. I thought, like I said, it was gonna be a two month break. It was like an eight month break. Mm-hmm. ⁓ but it it was the best thing for me. And I think during that time I got myself mentally and emotionally in a in a place where I believed that this could happen. Yeah where I told myself, which Molly's the one who told me this, she said, you just have to believe that you're gonna be a mom. Just know it in your heart that you're gonna be a mom and it'll it's not happening on your time, but it'll happen. And so I just mentally got there. It took a long time, but I just was like, it's gonna work. Someday it's gonna work. I don't know when, and I can't control when, but I know it's gonna work. Yeah. And then September 1st, I had my second transfer and it worked. And ⁓ shit. Now I'm gonna cry. ⁓ I remember you calling me. Sorry for anyone listening, not watching. We probably sound b like bumbling idiots, but I remember you calling me and I fell down on the ground. I was so happy for you. And Marcus was looking over, like, what happened? And I was like, she's raining. ⁓ that was the day. Yeah. And I still have that reaction that you had to me being pregnant to friends who I know have been going through it and they get pregnant. It's like it is just I it's so I know what it feels like to finally get that good news after years and years of bad news. And it still to this day brings me to tears when someone else Yeah, gets their day. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ man. I and I mean like I didn't realize how emotionally invested I was in your pregnancy until I just crumbled onto the tile. ⁓ I know. Yeah, that was the best thing. And I remember the way you told Greg was so fun and that video. I hope you keep I hope you showed it to Oliver at some point in his life. ⁓ Ooh, okay. Bring it back. Bring it back. ⁓ we can do hard things. We can do hard things. Like pregnancy. ⁓ okay, so how was your pregnancy? Was it comparatively? 'Cause I I always think that like the Lord good Lord gave me like a little bit of a break ⁓ after all of that. ⁓ I didn't get really sick and I was so thankful for that. It that didn't mean I had the easiest ⁓ pregnancy birth or postpartum, but ⁓ How was yours? mine was pretty uneventful, which again I yeah. I ⁓ equated it to I had been through the ringer for the past two years and maybe someone up above was right giving me, you know, throwing me a bone. I didn't have any crazy cravings. I didn't have any massive issues or you know, whatever I had. For the last three months, so I guess the third trimester, I had like ribs that were out of place, so I had to sleep sitting up for three months. So that was brutal. That b suck actually. Yeah, it really did suck. ⁓ I was in I was in some pain, but you know, every chiropractor and yeah practitioner that I saw said, Yeah, that's pretty normal, you're pregnant. Mm-hmm. So Yeah, pregnancy is not it's not supposed to be like chill. But ⁓ but I know horror stories of other people, you know, being sick the entire time. And that is my worst nightmare because I hate being nauseous more than anything else on the planet. ⁓ and so yeah. and then you he came early, right? Yeah. April twenty-third. ⁓ I got out of the shower and dried off and put on some pajamas like sweatpants and a sweatshirt and actually the strangest thing happened. I I dried off and got dressed and then I was like, that's weird. Why are my pants wet? 'Cause I didn't think that I had I dried. I yeah, I didn't and I didn't think I peed in my pants, which does happen when you're pregnant sometimes. Mm-hmm. And after you have the baby. Yeah. Also But I was like, I didn't feel like I had to pee. I didn't think I peed. Like I didn't know what happened. So I dried myself off again, switched my pants, went and sat on the couch next to my husband, and I was like, This weird thing just happened. Like I didn't think I peed, but my pants were all wet. And so whatever. I changed my pants. I went to watch a movie with him, sat down and like five minutes later, my pants are soaking wet again. And I'm like, What is happening? And the thing is, is it's not like the movies. My situation wasn't like the movies. It wasn't like a gush of water. It was like a trickle, like a little trickle of pea. But it wasn't pee. I s I thought. So we called the doctor. He said, I think you need to come in. You might have a ruptured amniotic sac. So and and I said, Okay, well y we just come in and you check it, or like do we bring the bag, like the go bag that we packed? I didn't know. They're like, No, you you you need to be prepared to stay here for a couple days. I was like, ⁓ okay. ⁓ okay. Yeah. ⁓ my goodness. So we grabbed all of our stuff, we dropped the dog off and went to the to the hospital. And ⁓ one test later they said, Yeah, your your sack has a amniotic sac must have like a rupture or a rip in it or whatever. So it was your water breaking. ⁓ so get comfy, you're gonna be you're not leaving here without a baby. I was like, ⁓ my gosh, what the heck? I got chills, I got chills. So he was born a month early, April twenty fourth. Okay. His due date was May twentieth. Yeah. ⁓ he was six and a half pounds, so he was fully grown and fine. ⁓ but he was just not like his he just wasn't quite strong enough. So he ended up in the NICU for ten days. ⁓ he was on oxygen, he had a feeding tube. ⁓ we got to stay in the hospital for ten days, which is a miracle, like wow. Yeah, our it's not I don't think a lot of hospitals do this, but ours in Glenwood have it's called I think they call it hotel style or something, where they discharge you as a patient, but you get to stay as almost like a hotel person who's staying in a hotel. Right, right. And so we got to stay in the hospital for ten days so that we could be there for feedings and be there for ⁓ see him. ⁓ we watched them give him a bath the Nikki nurses give him a bath, which is great 'cause I would have had no clue what to do. Yeah. So I I as hard as that was, I feel like I got ten days of coaching. Mm-hmm. Which a lot of my friends had said it's insane that 48 hours after you have this baby, they're like, Okay, bye. Yeah. And I had the opposite. I wanted to get out of there because I started having like cabin fever, ⁓ like panic attacky, my stomach was hurting. Not like from the baby, but because of the C-section. But they wouldn't let me leave until I could actually walk around the ward twice in a row. ⁓ I couldn't go to the bathroom. Sorry if this gross to anyone else, but ⁓ I suggest dolcalax, ducalax, however you say it, not just colease, because the ⁓ and I talked to a surgeon later when I did ⁓ repaired my umbilical hernia and he was like, Yeah, it's just gonna sit there. It makes it softer, but it doesn't expel it. And so I had just all this pain and I just felt like the walls were closing in. So I had the opposite experience. I was like, get me out of here. Yeah. Yeah. But hotel style sounds better. Because we were on hotel style, we were allowed to leave because I wasn't a patient. So we would leave and go either grab lunch or go for a a drive or something. So I didn't, you know, totally feel like the walls were closing in, but I didn't want to go thirty minutes away home. Well, you you don't want to take leave your son there. I I I would have without I definitely would have. Yeah, I wouldn't I've I've never would have felt like get me out of these walls if I couldn't take Arch with me. No. Right. No. Right. Right. So yeah. And then postpartum hits. Yeah. And then it's like, well, okay, my body's been through a lot of stuff already, but this is new. ⁓ and holy crap, now I'm a responsible person for this s squiggly thing. Yes. but Hey, you made it past one year. I feel like that is like the party that you give to your child if you do that, which we did not do that for Archer this year. We were like, he doesn't understand. We'll wait. But I feel like it was like a we made it, we kept this kid alive. Yeah. And let's celebrate that. Yeah. Yeah. We we just had cake and balloons, just the three of us. And honestly, I can't believe it that he is one. I can't believe we made it. ⁓ and I will say for people listening, I I will be totally honest in saying the first six months for me were real tough. I didn't love them. Yep. And the second six months have been so much better than the first six months. Yeah. I think that's more normal. ⁓ I can't speak for anyone outside of people I know who have been forthcoming with that, but I think that is the norm and I think that it should be a little bit more normal to say. as opposed to it being like, this is the best thing that ever h like, yeah, you can have you can hold those two things together. I am so happy that I I will do anything for this child or children if you have multiples. ⁓ but your body is coming down off of something epic. Yeah. And mine was epic, what is the thing that they're epic fury? That would be what I felt afterward. For a while and and I felt like I had crazy pills. ⁓ you know. So I would love to normalize more talking about the ⁓ the negative stuff. Not to be not to be negative, but just to make to level set what it actually feels like to be in the postpartum world because it is not of ⁓ a walk in the park. ⁓ it is gross in a lot of ways. Very and I mean I I don't know if I told you this because ⁓ you weren't pregnant. No. No, I probably didn't because you weren't pregnant yet. So I don't I didn't tell you a lot of my immediate postpartum stuff because I was definitely not going to be telling you then. But I was afraid to go to sleep at night. I was ⁓ or I was afraid of nights rather. I was afraid that I like there was some weird thing. And I'm a night person. Like I I had never had issues with it. But my mom and dad and Marcus were there. So I had all my people. And yet I was like and Marcus was like, Go take a nap because you're gonna be up all night long. And I was like, I'm afraid. Like I don't I didn't want to go to the other room. I would take a nap on the couch with everyone else so I would be with them because I knew I'd be alone with my child all night and every night was so hard. And I it just started to like feel like one long day that just would never ever end. And ⁓ yeah, it was r it was trippy. Yeah. I've never I didn't I didn't ⁓ expect it to be so hard. So I don't know if I told you this, but after The ten days in the hospital, I my body started recovering slowly but surely, I guess, from birth on. But about a week after birth, ⁓ it felt like it was not recovering. It felt like ⁓ I was having more pain down, you know, down there. And it was really hurting to go to the bathroom to pee even. It was like stinging and it was really uncomfortable. I don't think you told me this. And so I went about a week afterwards, you know, you go to the doctor ⁓ day day three and day four and whatever, however many times. It feels like you're always at the doctor. But a week after they were like, You actually your stitches have torn. ⁓ or you're or you're or they s disintegrated and you're not your your muscles are not back together. So I we did ten days in the hospital. We came home on a Friday. And on Monday at five o'clock I had to go back to the hospital and have a surgical procedure to basically restitch up my body. ⁓ and I didn't have that because I ended up having the C section. I had stitches, but yeah. But I I didn't have that experience t altogether. So I But then I had to leave my, you know, f twelve day old son with his dad and go under and go take a s you know, go have surgery. Right. And that was like terrifying because he didn't know he's like, I can't how are you gonna leave me with this kid for even if it could have been five hours? It could have been, you know, like something went wrong, I would have had to spend the night at the hospital. So yeah, it was just it was just felt like it was I mean, and that was only two weeks in and it sort of just felt like it when is my body gonna get better? And it took a really long time. Yeah. I feel like I'm just not looking looking like myself, which you know, it which is an also an extension of me feeling like myself. ⁓ all those years of just the shots in general, you know, like trying so hard, like I I didn't feel like myself all that time. I felt like I was kind of I had all these all this like chunkiness, but nothing to show for it. Right. Same same and I to my husband this this summer I've been running and doing stuff and I said I haven't had my own body in four years. I think it's been four years. And that takes a toll on you just in regular life. And I think, you know, there's no snap back. If you do, I tell me how. ⁓ Definitely not at forty four, I can tell you that. Right. Yeah. No man. and I'm okay with that. Like I'm okay if I don't look like myself, ⁓ I think I was on my thinnest post divorce when I w couldn't eat. Because I was so depressed. And so like, yeah, I'm not gonna look like that. But and so I'm I'm embracing now like a new version of me, a mom version of me. My body will never look the same. My hips expanded. You know, some stuff, my boobs are saggy now. Like they're so sad. But it that's okay. Like, 'cause all the things that I did, for this kid, I'll do it I do it all over again. But that does not mean that you don't wanna like retain some sense of you so that you can be that person to your kid. You know? Is there a part of you, because I I do feel like there's a part of me that I'm definitely still slower and I don't weigh the same as what I used to, you know, five plus years ago. But I feel stronger and I feel more grounded in, you know, who I am and even, you know, my body is coming back. Finally after a year and my weight is coming down and my hormones seem sort of stormalish. Okay ⁓ But I just feel I feel stronger than I've ever felt. I feel healthier than I've ever felt. ⁓ I don't know. I agree with you. I I think the metrics are different now. You know, how how I envision what strength is. it's just it's it's it's It's just changed the the angle. My my perspective of what strength is is is different. And ⁓ and I think that's a good thing. ⁓ I bought bigger pants as opposed to trying to s get into the smaller pants. And it's just like fine, okay, like my body's different. Who cares? And Marcus is such a great support because when I was going through like, when is this gonna get better? Am I like, am I lost forever? You know, just super dramatic me. And he was like, What you put your body through. For all the years, but then the pregnancy, like that is the ⁓ the most and it couldn't have been. I'm I I call bullshit on this, but he said it. So I'll just say, You're the most beautiful you've ever looked. Or like and so he would he would, you know, tout like, You made my kid for me. Yeah. You did this for for our child, for our family. And he would be and ⁓ of course again, I was like, You're You're just saying that. But he's continued to say that and it is it it has now gotten to be where I like kind of give myself those props too. Like, yeah, look what you put yourself through to get here and look look what you did without question. I never was like, Do I really want to lose my figure? No. Right. That was that never came into my being. Right. ⁓ so now I've I've sort of adopted that. I'm not like tooting my own horn or anything, but I am definitely on the side of of And I try to say that ⁓ in any way I possibly can to other women going through it because it's a mind warp afterward. Like you just and partially because you just don't feel like yourself. And ⁓ I remember last year at this time was when I was kind of at my lowest because I'd like I was like, it's already been a year. Where is it? Where am I? You know. And that second year, so something to look forward to. That second year, you really like start to to s to see the change and So if you're feeling it now a little bit, I feel like it's only gonna get better. Well, I hope you're right. but you know, I've also ⁓ I've also just like for the last six weeks, I have really I decided, you know, I for four years of medication and all that stuff, it's like what's the point of trying to lose five pounds to turn around and gain twenty five? So then you just kind of and you can't on the drugs, you can't, you know, work out super hard or it's always constant you can you can't do this and you can't do that and you should be careful doing that. So then you feel bad, you know, putting wanting wanting your body, you know, wanting to be skinny or wanting to be fit above wanting to get pregnant. And then you feel guilty about that. So I think that's why for four years I had just felt like my body was not my own. And now for the first time, I have been in six weeks I have been eating so healthy I have been running like crazy. I you know, I've always been an active person, but I really like turned it up about six weeks ago and like I'm finally seeing some of the weight come off. I'm finally feeling like, ⁓ my God, my pants I mean, I did throw away the twenty sixes. I probably will never wear a twenty six again and I'm fine with that. But I'm not, you know, I'm I'm I'm At a bigger slightly bigger size and I'm perfectly happy with that. And now the si that size feels good on me now that I've been running and working out and eating healthy and it's like it feels it feels good. But it's it's been a full year and like you said, I I feel like I still have quite a bit of work to do. Mm-hmm. And and it it just gets easier and easier. There is something to be said ⁓ for I'm a short waisted person and that was like my my indicator, like when I could put on pants. that it wasn't like like so tight right there because I just don't have a just to get the button space for like my body doesn't go like in. I mean if you're if you're not watching, I'm doing hand signals. But like I don't have that like little hourglass where like Yeah, I don't have an hourglass, but like I feel like even people don't have full hourglasses, they still have like a little dip where it's like your waist, ⁓ your your hips, and then you've got like a little dip in there And then head it up your torso. Mine is just up and down, girl. It is not cute. And so when there's any extra weight, which is that's where it goes first, which obviously is also where the baby was kept, ⁓ that's been the hardest thing for me to get off. And it's still not there yet, but I'm starting to see just like the little hint of a curve and ⁓ that I like I haven't seen in I don't know, a decade. I don't know. Yeah. ⁓ I know. Anyway. Okay. Bodies. Yeah, they're weird. Bodies. And look how cool. Yeah, this is so cool what what the body can do. And I've heard that my entire life, but it is it is a totally different thing when you experience it yourself. Yeah. It is. Okay, let's move on to the section I call hot potato. And you may not have anything. If you don't, that's okay. But hot potato is It's a mix of things. It can be something that you were told ⁓ before you got pregnant, while you were pregnant, while you're trying to get pregnant, ⁓ something like a cautionary tale. ⁓ you know, it could be a cautionary tale for someone else not to say something. It could be unsolicited advice. It could be something like out of this world, inappropriate. There's no right or wrong here, but I like for this to serve as ⁓ a tool. For someone else, either to get something off your chest, not necessarily like to malign anybody or call someone out, but the things that you hear, and we all hear this stuff. So do you have anything? ⁓ I think that people always give you unsolicited advice, whether they no matter what. I don't know. I think it's just people feel like they can tell women their unsolicited advice. Free advice. ⁓ and the one I feel like I heard all the time was like, ⁓ just stop thinking about it and you'll get pregnant And you know, well, okay. ⁓ that doesn't work when you're s taking shots in your multiple places and pills and Yeah, just diso dissociate. Yeah. Just just have a mental episode. Just get drunk and have sex. No, that doesn't always work. Especially when you're 42 years old. Science actually says that doesn't work. Right. ⁓ there was another one that you and I talked about yesterday that I cannot remember. I think it was ⁓ I think it was the like right after you had the baby. And they were like, Isn't this the most ⁓ yes. Right after having the baby, I was in a deep dark place. and I don't think I thought it was fun. And I sort of thought, even after all this, what the heck did we do? Why did we do this? Who's I remember saying to my husband, whose idea was this? Knowing full well it was mine. I'm like, why did you make me do this? And he's like, You're insane. ⁓ But what people always say to a new mom is, ⁓ my gosh, congratulations. Are you just loving every second of it? And the first few ⁓ weeks, months of being a new mom is I don't want to say horrible because that's just such a negative word, but it is so hard. And you don't know what you're doing and you don't feel good, and you are trying to keep this screaming mushy thing alive, and you love them, but also you're like, What is wrong with you? Stop crying. Like we vr I don't know. And I remember a friend's older sister, she's like ten years older than us, she said, ⁓ my god, are you just loving every second of it? And I looked her square in the eye and I said, Well, not every second. She said, That's precisely. ⁓ yeah. Well, it is kinda hard, right? Like it's kinda hard. And so, yeah, a new mom isn't always loving every second and isn't always super happy. And what made me feel the best was somebody said, How old is your baby? And I said, ⁓ two weeks or three weeks or whatever it was at the time. And they said, ⁓ you're really in it. That's hard. And when they said that, it like tears just started Yeah. Like I felt like I was seen. Like I was just like Yeah, we are in it. And does it yeah does it get better than this? Like I don't I'm not sure. Can like ⁓ I think I think two things about that that phrase. ⁓ I feel like it's like a like a rote. Like it's a rote phrase to be like, Are you just or assuming that that's the case. How many people out there actually have that experience? I wanna know. Like it does that exist? I I don't know. Like how could it? Because your b your body's coming down off all the hormones ⁓ in a crash that I Marcus was like, holy moly. Yeah. You are like I just would be like, ⁓ you know, just cry. And and then like I'd be fine. But then he would look at me funny and I would cry again and like He just he just was like, stay away. I don't know who he texted, but I'm pretty sure he like called my parents and was like psycho on the list. Maybe if it's not your first child, then maybe you enjoy every minute. Because Nah no Maddie didn't know every postpartum for her sucked because she had mastitis and I mean and and the you still have the same crash. It's not like you retain those those hormones and they just are just like lightly land. Right. But maybe when you know ⁓ a little bit more of what you're getting yourself into. It's a little less jarring as to like Yeah. And I think maybe some people forget how hard it is. Like if if it's been forever in a day since you went through it, maybe just like you know, like time heals all wounds kind of feel, maybe that does play a role in remembering all the gory details. ⁓ but the f the Caution in that is that when when you're feeling the way you felt when th the first one was told you, isn't it great every single second? Are you just loving it? Versus the other person. The weight, the burden that that put on you, to be like, Wait, sh am I feeling something I shouldn't feel? Like, is is something wrong with me? ⁓ just that just that alone. When I remember texting somebody and and sharing this, by the way, that not you, but sharing that I was like, I th she had just had the baby and I just checked on her just because I I had just gone through that part of it like I was coming out of the worst part of the postpartum. ⁓ and so I was like, Hey, just like g gird your loins kind of thing. You know, just you'll be fine. You'll make it through because I had I would have wanted someone to tell me that. Yeah. And this person's response, and we're not very close. So it's, you know, this is not like somebody who I guess felt comfortable telling me, but she said, she said ⁓ it's been the greatest thing ever. I can't believe we didn't have her before this. And I was like, Okay. Okay. I mean, I guess that maybe that does happen for somebody. It didn't hit me the same way it would have felt if I had been in the in it, like you said. ⁓ but I but then ⁓ I was just like, Okay, maybe okay, you know, and I don't actually think that was the case. I think that that's what that person felt ⁓ like she should tell me. Yeah. And I don't know why that is. And I don't want that to be that I want to normalize being honest about where you are and how hard it is. Because you don't like I think they told me in birthing class, ⁓ when when it came to epidural or no no epidural, you don't get more points for it hurting more. You don't you're not a better mother. You're not like it d this you don't get any prize if it's harder. And I would say the same thing for postpartum. You don't get any prize to say that it didn't Like the biography happen. Yeah. And actually I think it can maybe hurt. Or like you said, like the movies. ⁓ it my my water breaking wasn't what it was in the movies. If we think everything is supposed to be one way, when it doesn't go that way, and it usually doesn't go the way you think it's going to go, that's just extra stuff in your head and you don't need any more. You've got enough going on. And so I just wanna put it out there to anyone listening or watching, like If you ha if you are about to have a baby, text me. Tell me what's going on while s while something's going on. I will tell you you are normal. I will tell you this will get better because it is hard to remember when you're in the thick of it that there is like I felt like I was drowning. Just constantly drowning. Yeah. And ⁓ so I just I wanna normalize it. I'm starting a campaign. There you go. ⁓ normalizing the the The first few months not being the best thing that ever happened to you. Yeah. And you know what? You can you can feel really shitty and love your baby. Right. Like it doesn't mean that you're a bad mom. It doesn't mean you're a bad wife because you're not taking it well. And yeah. Yeah, I didn't want to return him to sender, but I wasn't having fun. I felt horrible. I looked horrible. I wasn't sleeping. My emotions were all over the place. My husband was like, What happened to you? Yeah. Sorry, I've envisioned him. Envisioning like a box. But I didn't I love you know, I loved him and I was of course I loved him. I grew him, but I also was like, I don't think I like this phase. Yeah. And that's something that people say. That I love is, you know, you're not gonna like every phase. Maybe it was my therapist that said that. You know, some people hate the teenage years, or I shouldn't say hate, that's strong, but dislike the teenage years. Some people dislike the baby years. Some people dislike the elementary school years. And so, you know, everybody's different, and you're not just like just like life, you're not gonna like every second of it. You're not gonna feel Bursting joy every second of it because some of it is so hard and so you can love your kid and hate what they're doing, even using that strong language. You can love your kid and can't believe this is your child. Love you, love you, love you. And also, like this morning, ⁓ we have a two year old and he is acting like one. And ⁓ and Marcus said, I need a minute. I don't want to throw him across the room. You know, 'cause he wouldn't. He would not do that. But he also recognized that he needs some space from this child who is just like bucking his head and throwing his body and he's a dense kid. So it yeah, I mean, I y I think I think we all feel or at least I don't feel this weight personally, ⁓ to make myself look better. In front of everybody. Of course, I would love I have a better side that I like to have. Like I'm not saying like I'm I'm this ⁓ pure person. I hate every photo I'm in. Like hear me correctly. I'm not saying I'm just like happy with with with everything, but I don't feel compelled to ⁓ face tune or gloss over whatever. If I can get a better angle naturally, that's what I'll do. But I I really I think there's so much energy these days and and always. spent on trying to s put out the right thing or what you think is the right, the most the shiniest, the most curated, ⁓ best foot forward. ⁓ that other people are ⁓ are getting one thing and not that the whole you. And the whole you is pretty great. Yeah. And it's that's like social media, right? It's it's the Instagram, the you know, the Instagram reel is the best moments of somebody's life, the moments they're willing to share with complete strangers. And very often people aren't willing to share the vulnerable moments. Right. You know, on a social media platform. ⁓ but I think the more we do share that, you know, it is hard and it but it's also rewarding. And it is I don't know, just not always rainbows and butterflies. the more people can sort of feel less alone when it's not rainbows and butterflies. Yeah. ⁓ that that doesn't mean necessarily that something is wrong with what you're going through and your process. ⁓ what it does mean, ⁓ if more people do this and say these things and talk about it freely, is that you have more people to have as a resource. And that's what I hope this show really provides. ⁓ fun, laughter, tears. and ⁓ I knew memories. Yeah, I knew it. I knew it. I didn't I was really thinking I could hold it together, but no. ⁓ and and just the the the candid conversation about something that like half the planet deals with. And the thing I get back around around this show a lot is. I wish more people would talk like this. And I'm like, yeah, that is the point. That is why this thing exists. That's why it will continue to exist. To keep doing the stories. This this show is not like a you listen to it every week because you want to hear about ⁓ someone else's fertility journey every week. But you find yourself in there. It's like a ⁓ I think I likened it to an index. Like if you found a book you wanted ⁓ about fertility, you would go and find some of the things that you've already experienced. That's what this is. And so, ⁓ with that said, Ashley. Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing. I I honestly didn't know if you'd want to ever come on it. ⁓ because I just because you're you you had a pretty traumatic experience and I didn't know your thoughts on this. So I was delighted when you said yes. and I I hope more people get get ⁓ their story out, whether that's on here, which you don't have to, but if it is, ⁓ at le to somebody you feel like it's a safe container for your story or Reach out to me privately, which is what a lot of people did after I first told everyone I I had done IBF when Archer had arrived. and have those conversations, keep having ⁓ keep showing up for each other. That's the only way this thing gets any better. And also, like, I have a lot more friends because of it. Not because I went through IBF, but because I you know, we're connected in in in more ways than just like we went to the same high school, you know? ⁓ so anyway, thank you so much for being on this show. If you ⁓ have a question for I'm gonna volunteer you, Ashley. Sorry. ⁓ either of us, please reach out. I'll put all of our information in the show notes. I live really close to Ashley too, so I could just like walk it over to her. I'm happy to to answer any questions or speak with anyone. ⁓ yeah. You know, I think once you got lining issues, you have a girl now. Call me. Yeah. Yeah. I think once you go through it, you're you're happy to to help as best you can because you know. It takes a village to figure it out. It does. It does. And ⁓ I'm so thankful I had you going through my stuff because you were helpful to me. Obviously, we yo yo'ed back and forth with our journey, but I also think it's really important for like you might have somebody in your life that you don't know is also going through what you're going through. So maybe be willing to put it out there in a teeny tiny and like see what comes out. See see if you can maybe have a have a friend in the trenches at the same time. I don't think there's anything quite like that. and so again, if you have any questions for either of us, reach out to us. If you know somebody who is going through IVF or trouble with anything fertility wise, or just somebody who you know would want to to know they are not alone and what they went through 20 years ago, please share this episode. ⁓ that's the only way this gets better. This has nothing to do with subscribes or likes or reviews. I'm not going to ask you to do that. Just simply share it with someone who could benefit from the information and the candid conversation that Ashley and I had today or any of the other episodes that are available. ⁓ we will be back next week with another episode. ⁓ I hope everyone takes care of themselves and each other. And until then, bye.